Lusotannan Observations

[Wolster]

Hello all my first forum post.

Firstly I would like to thank all EB creators who have done a truly wonderful job on this mod, i carnt express how many wonderful hours I have passed just on the faction selection screen nevermind the campaigns.

I finally settled into my Lusotannan campaign, as their unit roster is gorgeously presented in its entirety, from the weak levies all the way to the top.

I did however notice what I believe is an oversite many of the core units appear to have incorrect "Weapon Types" assigned to them as follows:-


- Lusotannan Light Spearman - Missile - should be "light"
- Lusotannan Light Infantry - Missile - should be "light"
- Lusotannan Medium Spearman - Missile - should be "light/heavy"

All other units appeared correct. This is slightly irritating as the only military improvement temples available to the Lusotannan player are Weapon upgrades to Light & Heavy weapon types.

On a side issue I have seen the Celtiberian heavy infantry unit on the unit art previews & wonder if this unit is either already in the game (& i missed it) or will appear in a future release.

Finally with regard to a recent post relating to the lack lustre staple iberian units in the current release, i have to agree (i am forced to kill them asap & never recruit them into the ranks of the beautiful Lusotannan - making the campaign nice & tough as all recruitment flows through 2 provinces, the exception is the Vassi Heavy spears, the decent looking elite iberians, & the newer asturian style units which blend in nicely).

An easy to impliment solution to the "iberian unit problem" could be to slightly widen the Lusotannan recruitment zone, reuse the the old cloaked light infantry(which were always nice), & use the current Lusotannan light infantry model as the iberian model.

Appologies in advance if any of my points appear nit picky / unwarrented / & have been put into the wrong forum (bugs etc), as I can only heap praise on this mod which has brought life to a game which would otherwise be gathering dust on my shelf.

Many thanks EB team.

Wolster

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Some units are given weapon types that don't seem logical, but are that way so that the AI will deploy them where they should in the formation.

[Watchman]

Er... since when did unit weapon types have anything to do with their deployement ? Isn't that handled by the formation file on the basis of the type/class (eg. "cavalry/light", "infantry/spearman") designations ?

[iwwtf_az]

it says missile because the first weapon they use is the throwing javelin. then they switch to their main weapon.

[Wolster]

Before 2 many replies focus on the missile relating to the javalin "secondary weapon" i thought i should just say that the entire Lusotannan army utilises the javalin, & many of the units such as the Elite shock infantry, & light asturian whilst javalin armed are more correctly shown as "weapon type" heavy or light. Just because this was my 1st post dont assume I am noob at the game & that i havent compared the unit stats of the other Lusotannan units.

As my post says, all the other units appear correct, including Levy skirmishers which i would expect to be "missile weapon type" & are.

The units i have identified are front line core infantry & in no way "missile" units, in exactly the same way as Roman Legionary infantry (carrying 2 pila) are not missile units.


Please dont just always assume that the the guy who posted once on the forum hasnt done his homework on the game before his post.

I was also thinking it might be of use to the EB team if players using other factions, could identify any units which also appear incorrecty weapon type classified, as the number of units in the game are vast & checking them all would be a pain.

[Thaatu]

The same weapon bonus thing is with lots of other units. Like with Aedui most units that have spears get only a defence bonus. Is it because, when comparing Bataroas to Gaeroas, the Bataroas have this:

stat_pri         6, 8, javelin, 35, 2, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1

...while Gaeroas have this:

stat_pri         4, 4, javelin, 55, 3, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 10 ,1

What's the difference between "archery" and "simple" types?


Edit: From what I quickly glanced, units that have an "archery" type in their primary weapon don't get the attack bonus from smiths. The "archery" and "simple" types seem to be spread pretty randomly in the EDU.


Edit2: I hope I didn't kill the conversation...

[Thaatu]

Does anyone know about these things? Is it a bug or am I just insane?

[Mouzafphaerre]

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I try to remember the difference. Feels like I had learnt it trying to mod-out the magic auto-firing lazer guns.

But don't quote me, I am insane.
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[bovi]

I don't know. That goes for both the weapon types and your sanity.

[Thaatu]

Congrats Wolster, it seems you struck gold. Or perhaps a void, depends on if someone knows what those thingies mean.

[Wolster]

I think void, but its not as if i built the mod, I just enjoy the playing of it, so back to killing Roman scum for me :)

[Mouzafphaerre]

I don't know. That goes for both the weapon types and your sanity.

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Neither do I...
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[Thaatu]

Okay, okay, enough, I get it, but my sanity isn't the question here. I'll try testing it.



Edit: It seems so. 'Simple' allows weapon upgrades while 'archery' does not. It's up to the team to figure out which weapon types or units deserve smithy bonuses.

[Pharnakes]

Yeah, and I bet archery will only be upgradeable through an archery bonus, like level 2 smiths had in vannila.

[CirdanDharix]

Weapon types in the EDU correspond to weapon types in-game, but the names change.

IIRC, "simple"="light"
"blade"="heavy"
"archery"="missile"
"other"="cannot be upgraded"
"siege"="siege"(? this has something to do with a hardcoded reform system I think?)

[Mouzafphaerre]

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I think siege may refer to artillery.

Thaatu, I thought it was my sanity in question.
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[blacksnail]

I believe the "missile" type is a way to keep the AI from spamming certain units. This was a few months back, so don't quote me, but I think it's a behind-the-scenes way to prevent perpetual invasion of dumb stack combinations.

So, in other words, it is very likely intentional.

[CirdanDharix]

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I think siege may refer to artillery.

Thaatu, I thought it was my sanity in question.
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That was its only use (IIRC) in Vanilla. But in the latest EB version it is being used for some factions' reforms, because apparently you can turn off production of units with siege weaponry, and then turn it on with a reform marker. This is used for Carthage's later units (like Dorkim Aloopim) and Seleukid cataphracts I believe. The method used might be applicable to all wepaon types, not just siege, but siege is obviously more convenient--I think the side effect is that some factions may not be able to build artillery until they get their reforms, though.

[bovi]

'Simple' allows weapon upgrades while 'archery' does not. It's up to the team to figure out which weapon types or units deserve smithy bonuses.

Oh, yes this is right, I didn't think that was the question.
Archery does allow bonuses, we just don't give them (as increased attack for missile units is bad for balance due to their hardcoded 100% lethality).
Simple/blade weapons are upgraded by the blacksmith.
Other is elephants mostly, no upgrades allowed.
Siege is for reform units. We add a penalty to these "weapons" on a building in order to make them unrecruitable, until we add another building with a bonus to cancel it out at the point of reform.

Technically you could upgrade other as well, but the weapon type display string is shared with the siege one, saying "Cannot be upgraded". I'd want to change this to "Reform unit" for siege if it was only separate strings for the two, but the way it is the elephants would all get that too .

=========

I thought the question was about why certain javelin-toting guys have archery and other similar ones have simple. I don't know this, but Blacksnail's explanation makes some sense.

[Thaatu]

So, in other words, it is very likely intentional.

Got it.

[Wolster]

Dont suppose Lusotannan could have some useful morale improving temples vs useless Weapon type upgrade temples, or is that like asking for jam on it

[Pharnakes]

Morale is broken.

[Kepper]

Form my the Lusotannan need a unit of long rage in there unit´s poll
Quote for Lusotannan faction page
«We have always been here. We are farmers, we are shepherds. We are warriors!»
Too reason for there having some long rage unit.
1-The prefer weapon of the shepherds is a Sling
2-There Lusotannan fight by ambush there enemy's, the best AI is it long rage weapons.
They have Balearic Slingers but there mercenary and for train more the player must conquer the Baleric isle, or recruit more mercenary.
Or the player most conquer the east part of Iberia to get some, Iaosatae (Yo-sah-tie; "Slingmen").

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Balearics, Iosatae and Sotaroas are kicking bad ass in my campaign.
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