The Error that is Man

[Bijo]

Well, gentlemen and few ladies, the time has come for me to open a thread in the Backroom which is something I haven't done for many a moon. It regards man. Let us criticize man and for those who wish to oppose they may fend off the critique.

Man -- humankind -- is truly a primitive creature: it operates on emotion, passions, desires, irrationality, unconscious instincts, and more rubbish. It is a violent hostile species that is capable and willing to destroy. Shallow and simpleminded. It even does so for fun or entertainment. It usually has a lack of intellectual capabilities to ascend to higher states of being, to achieve peace and prevent conflict, to know truth, to achieve the richness of wisdom.

Oh please, damn: Man.... man (I type it with a small m instead of a capital M because it is unworthy of even that) is truly a primitive beast. Put a human next to a lion and I still see two animals.

Instead of utilizing his efforts, energy, to achieve intellectual superiority, truth, peace, objectivity, and so on, he uses them to destroy, for self-gain, to achieve or wield (destructive) power over others, consumerism and greed. To fuel his own negative traits and sustain them.

The average human mind is advanced compared to those of other animals, yet a primitive one as most still operate with certain aforementioned aspects. For instance, I recall one person -- a fellow student from my college -- with whom I debated about some topic. He actually gave me his opinion and his belief. Why would his subjective opinion and belief be of any interest? There are many examples.

What a wretched filthy race it is. After so many ages where are we? Centuries have passed, yet the majority of man is still primitive in nature and it would seem it would remain so: war/conflict, emotion, hedonism, anti-intellectualism, etcetera. The existence of man must be an error. The existence of man must be a bad joke.... nay: existence of nature, physics, itself as we know it, and us part of it, must be an error.

I know my post is very light-hearted and not heavy at all: I have taken precautions to make it sound nice enough so it would not be difficult to read. I am even avoiding the use of sarcasm, as you can see in this current paragraph you're reading, heheheh

Now, let your misanthropy commence.

[Craterus]

Do you consider yourself one? Or are you enlightened?

[Ronin]

considering our dominance as a species in this planet all I have to say is..

Whether you like it, or you don't like it, learn to love it, because it's the best thing going today.

[Csargo]

I am God-like. Obviously not an error. :P

[Papewaio]

Centuries is a rather short time frame.

[Warmaster Horus]

In the words of Basil Fawlty: "We're stuck with it, I guess."

I don't think you can categorize the whole of man like that. We're all different, even though we've got the same instincts. I do admit lying, maybe once or twice cheating, but have otherwise tried to be exemplar. Of course, I'm only 16, so my view of the world is rather limited, but all the same...

I don't understand one thing, though:

For instance, I recall one person -- a fellow student from my college -- with whom I debated about some topic. He actually gave me his opinion and his belief. Why would his subjective opinion and belief be of any interest?

You were debating about something, and he told you what he thought of it. What's wrong in that? And how would the "debate" move on, without his input?

[Charge]

No!

[KukriKhan]

The existence of man must be an error. The existence of man must be a bad joke.... nay: existence of nature, physics, itself as we know it, and us part of it, must be an error.

Perhaps. But by whom?

'Error' implies its opposite: correct. We've read your examples of human error; what would be human correctness (or correct function?)?

[Justiciar]

Rabid monsters, brutal parasites, thoughtless drones.. meh. It's a valid existence. Besides, as a species our flaws are more than made up for. I mean.. look at this.. I'm communicating with you, directly, from what may the other side of the world. Let's see a Dolphin do that!

[Ayachuco]

Hey! What about the Wo-Man in the world. I support the feminist movement b/c my Mom dominates me and my dad.

Perhaps it is our primitiveness is what makes us so great. If you strip away our emotions, passions, and vices you are left with a robot. It may be perfect, yes, but it has nothing to strive for. It doesn't question or improve; it only performs its task and gets it done w/o thinking about the consequences or benefits of its actions.
My Mom is once again dominating me and telling me to get off the computer so I will add more once I get more time.

[Papewaio]

I'm communicating with you, directly, from what may the other side of the world. Let's see a Dolphin do that!

Would you
a) Have a swim, eat seafood and have copious quantities of sex.
OR
b) Communicate on the internet.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Most people are fine. Some are schoolboys with a near clinical narcistic superiority complex based on absolutely nothing whatsoever. One can only hope they seek help or grow out of it.

[Strike For The South]

Most people are fine. Some are schoolboys with a near clinical narcistic superiority complex based on absolutely nothing whatsoever. One can only hope they seek help or grow out of it.

[Mongoose]

Would you
a) Have a swim, eat seafood and have copious quantities of sex.
OR
b) Communicate on the internet.

Would you rather be on the internet or in a tuna net? The dolphin, delicious though it may be, has nothing on us.

As for the topic, we might be in immoral species, but on a whole we're better than most other forms of life on this planet. Obviously, nobody is perfect, but we're still better than anything else that we know of on this planet, so there's no need to single out humanity. I, for one, would like to see an essay on the evils and moral failings of bears for a change.

And if we've learned anything from George Orwell's Animal Farm, it's that if we give them the chance, animals like pigs and dogs will act just as badly as we do. And as if that wasn't bad enough, they're also communists!

[Papewaio]

Better not use Goldilocks as a character witness to humanity vs bears.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Why would his subjective opinion and belief be of any interest?

How is your subjective opinion and belief of any interest?

Eh, screw it...

Why do you hate freedom?

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Most people are fine. Some are schoolboys with a near clinical narcistic superiority complex based on absolutely nothing whatsoever. One can only hope they seek help or grow out of it.

Critical hit!

It's super effective!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Most people are fine. Some are schoolboys with a near clinical narcistic superiority complex based on absolutely nothing whatsoever. One can only hope they seek help or grow out of it.

[Navaros]

The original post is 100% correct, however, the original post neglects to note the root cause of why this is so, why this always has been so, and why this always will be so.

That root cause is sin nature which has been passed down to every human being after the fall of the first human beings, Adam and Eve. Sin nature dictates that every human will have selfish, impure lust and desires and believe that his or her purpose of existing on Earth is to gratify them as much as possible, no matter how immoral the pursuit of those lusts and desires are.

[Rodion Romanovich]

The original post is quite good, but focuses too much on the weaknesses in human nature that are difficult or impossible to solve, and those aren't rational to focus on. Such weaknesses as those in human nature are not problems, if you are just clever enough to know about their existence and counter or circumvent them. Man is not suited to living in civilization, since her instincts are adapted to act rationally in the society form that existed before it. Unfortunately, most human beings expect rationality in themselves and fellow members of their species.

That is the one and only weakness in man that is rational to criticise: that she doesn't realize that all society forms she has had since the birth of civilization (the historical counterpart to Adam and Eve's eating of the apple) are not suited to her. That she keeps criticising the weakness of herself (or more often: of all other members of the species but not himself/herself), rather than the one true weakness she has. For truly it isn't rational to believe that she is a 100% rational being in any environment, or should aspire to reach this impossible or nearly impossible goal, while ignoring and forgetting the simplest of all ways to avoid defeat: to avoid battle. It is irrational to expect or hope for 100% rationality in human beings: mankind has no rationale for being 100% rational in any environment- it is enough to be as rational as possible in the environments she is adapted to live in. What strikes me as the deepest form of stupidity in this species is how it constantly out of pride ignores the simple fact that she isn't perfectly rational, and that she stubbornly keeps creating society forms for a type of being that does not exist. That she keeps putting her own society form above her species, and claims it is individuals who are faulty, when the society form that was intented to be created for mankind, turned out to not suit it well.

So why concentrate on criticising an animal for being an animal? Instead concentrate on criticising an animal for trying to be some endlessly rational, unrealistic being that it is not! And for time after time be surprised when a society created without any thought of compensating for or circumventing the weaknesses in human nature, causes trouble when you put real people in it.

[Papewaio]

If we 100% kept to one strategy we would be as predicatable as the TW AI and just as dead.

'Irrationality', emotions, fear, greed are all switches and motivating forces so that our genes may survive. Too passive or too sure about ourselves and the swimmers will never get to meet their other half.

[Odin]

Most people are fine. Some are schoolboys with a near clinical narcistic superiority complex based on absolutely nothing whatsoever. One can only hope they seek help or grow out of it.

Gee Louis you really do have to stop, soon your going to come off as a cynical old man.

Beautiful though, should be the description for the backroom. Minus the "schoolboys" and add in any objectionable adjective you like.

Yet another HOF worthy post.

[Bijo]

In the words of Basil Fawlty: "We're stuck with it, I guess."

I don't think you can categorize the whole of man like that. We're all different, even though we've got the same instincts. I do admit lying, maybe once or twice cheating, but have otherwise tried to be exemplar. Of course, I'm only 16, so my view of the world is rather limited, but all the same...

I don't understand one thing, though:
You were debating about something, and he told you what he thought of it. What's wrong in that? And how would the "debate" move on, without his input?

You have given the answer yourself more or less: the same instincts. Only different when we regard the little details and physical differences and so on, but these details are not so important. It is the big picture we focus on, and this big picture shows us that many are alike which is sufficient information. Only if really necessary the subtle differences are to be checked.

What is wrong with that person in question is the fact he contributed his opinion and beliefs which are "subjective" in nature. How will you determine what is true or false with opinions and beliefs? You won't. Consistent logic will.

---

Perhaps. But by whom?

'Error' implies its opposite: correct. We've read your examples of human error; what would be human correctness (or correct function?)?

The control of primitive natural aspects (emotion, passion, selfish desires, conflict (inner and outer)), the ascension to high intellect, truth, wisdom, peace, logic, spirituality, morality, science.

---

Perhaps it is our primitiveness is what makes us so great. If you strip away our emotions, passions, and vices you are left with a robot. It may be perfect, yes, but it has nothing to strive for. It doesn't question or improve; it only performs its task and gets it done w/o thinking about the consequences or benefits of its actions.

You are saying it is my position that a "robot" -- here defined by YOU -- would be perfect?

---

How is your subjective opinion and belief of any interest?

Eh, screw it...

Why do you hate freedom?

You are saying I gave my subjective opinion and belief in the original post? Can you prove I have done so? When reading that post one should detect facts and some words some would consider pessimistic, but not opinion nor belief.

You are telling me -- and it is disguised as a question -- my position or part of my position is that I hate freedom? First define what freedom is. Then can you prove I hate it?

---

The whole point is that even with intellect that is superior to other animals we know of this Earth, generally man is still a primitive beast after all these many many ages. Technology is one thing, but the human itself is another. Our technology level is being increased, but we leave our basic human primitivity to exist. We know -- and many probably do not or don't even THINK -- of this wretched (human) nature, so let us do effort to learn the truth and eliminate these wretched human aspects. The basic intellect is there, now... use it to ascend already.

If one does not, one is primitive

[Innocentius]

I basically agree with the original post, but then again it's all pointless and there's nothing worth anything, so it doesn't really matter.

[Husar]

You are saying I gave my subjective opinion and belief in the original post? Can you prove I have done so?

Can you prove you haven't done so?
I'd say most people here enter their own opinion, those who don't should prove that they don't. But then it's hard to find out what's really going on in your head either way.

When reading that post one should detect facts and some words some would consider pessimistic, but not opinion nor belief.

That's the problem, your opinion, and yes I call it that, seems to stem from some bad experience or whatever and my experience differs, thus I don't think you provided any universal facts. They may or may not apply to certain people but they're definitely not universal.

The whole point is that even with intellect that is superior to other animals we know of this Earth, generally man is still a primitive beast after all these many many ages.

Believe it or not but some or many of those beasts seem to be happier than higher beings like you. There's nothing wrong with being primitive or stupid as long as it makes you happy. Also if we're actually that primitive than maybe we're too primitive to become better. We're there to be and stay primitive, it's our destiny and you're just some weird artifact, trying to revolt but ultimately destined to fail and be unhappy.

We know -- and many probably do not or don't even THINK -- of this wretched (human) nature, so let us do effort to learn the truth and eliminate these wretched human aspects. The basic intellect is there, now... use it to ascend already.

If one does not, one is primitive

We should introduce a happy monkey day to celebrate our stupid feelings, emotuions and all the other stuff that makes us happy, primitive monkeys.

[Andres]

We should introduce a happy monkey day to celebrate our stupid feelings, emotuions and all the other stuff that makes us happy, primitive monkeys.

Are you mocking my avatar again?

[Vladimir]

It's beyond me how anyone can call man primitive. Is there another species to compare us to? Preferably one that isn't tasty, low in fat, and high in protein.

[Viking]

The existence of man must be an error. The existence of man must be a bad joke.... nay: existence of nature, physics, itself as we know it, and us part of it, must be an error.

There is some sort of irony in such statements.

[Fragony]

If it's an error something must have made it otherwise it's just a series of unfortunate events, I never took you for the religious type Bijo

[Rodion Romanovich]

If we 100% kept to one strategy we would be as predicatable as the TW AI and just as dead.

'Irrationality', emotions, fear, greed are all switches and motivating forces so that our genes may survive. Too passive or too sure about ourselves and the swimmers will never get to meet their other half.

Was this post in response to mine? Then, let me rephrase my statement and ask, is it a good strategy for an animal to create an environment for herself, to which she cannot adapt? That is the thing that mankind is doing, that no other animal is stupid enough to do. And in the process, she calls herself rational. And she thinks she's having control over her creation, even though she does not. Adaption is a given part of the (subconscious or not) strategy of any animal. But changing the environment to undo all adaption capability, is not so common. In fact, mankind is evolution's first try at an animal that can dramatically change its environment. We shouldn't expect ourselves to be very good at it when we do it in the semi-random, crazy way we're doing it now.