I've heard it mentioned many times that Gaesate fought often as mercenaries. I am curious as to why they are not recruitable as mercenaries (I checked the mercenaries file and they aren't there).
I've heard it mentioned many times that Gaesate fought often as mercenaries. I am curious as to why they are not recruitable as mercenaries (I checked the mercenaries file and they aren't there).
Last edited by TWFanatic; 11-27-2007 at 02:31.
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod
While they did fight as mercenaries (i.e. for others in exchange for pay) they were very picky about who they fought for, so we didn't think the RTW merc system would be appropriate. Many units fall under the same situation.
History is for the future not the past. The dead don't read.
Operam et vitam do Europae Barbarorum.
History does not repeat itself. The historians repeat one another. - Max Beerbohm
Interesting. So why did they choose to fight for, say Hannibal, and later at Telamon?Originally Posted by QwertyMIDX
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod
you mean the naked guy with 2HP?
i can hire them around pella...and i played as romani.
No those are the Tindanotae, the Galatian version of the Gaesatae. Galatians belong to the portion of Celts who were extremely warlike; and Galatians weren't above service to any master provided he had the money to afford them AFAIK.
- Tellos Athenaios
CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread
“ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.
It seems you and Qwerty disagree.Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod
No, they don't. The Tindanotae and the Gaesatae are two different units, from two different subcultures of the Celtic world. The Galatians - where the Tindanotae come from - tend to be more warlike, evidentially, and showed up in Asia Minor as mercenaries in the first place.Originally Posted by TWFanatic
Perhaps, but this is probably due to my poor expressive skills. Here we go again:
Gaesatae can be
1) A tribe
2) A type of elite soldier (EB meaning)
3) An actual instance of (2) (Tindanotae are an instance of Gaesatae, as are Gaesatae - if you find it confusing: a home may be a buidling, a house may be a home and a house may be a building. It doesn't mean that all houses are homes nor that all homes are houses, though!)
And I have sinned against clarity by using multiple meanings of the Gaesatae whithout warning I did.
Now here's the message rephrased:
"No those are a Galatian version of Gaesatae called the Tindonatae units, who unlike the Gaesatae which form the Gaesatae units weren't picky about who employed them."
- Tellos Athenaios
CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread
“ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.
Ah I see. I get it now.
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod
Originally Posted by Beefy187
O.o I thought the Gauls were rich out the wazoo, considering they wore a bunch of flashy stuff into battle and whatnot, along with most soldiers had an expensive longsword, but im no Gallic expert.
Tellos or QwertyMIDX do you have any suggested readings on the Gaesatae? If you do I would greatly appreciate such information. The only things I can find is about the battles of Telamon, Clastidum and Medionalum.Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios
I know Polybius mentions them several times, but I do not remember where. Perhaps you can find these references in here:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...01.0234&query=
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod
Which are better Gaesatae or Tindanotae?
A ha ha! Rainbows and unicorns! Rainbows and unicorns!
.
Gaesatae can -allegedly- eat any melee infantry in the game raw. That's why they have been a matter of controversy among some fans.
Personally, they posed no real problem in our not many encounters. Outnumber and flank have been my usual tactics against them, indifferent than against Romani heavy infantry.
.
Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony
Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
.
I think they have the same stats, but while Tindanotae are recruitable as mercenaries, Gaesatae are only recruitable by Aedui, Arverni (native MIC 4) and Carthage (regional MIC 4).Originally Posted by Xehh II
Edit: Actually Gaesatae have morale 22 while Tindanotae have 20. So Gaesatae are better.
Last edited by Thaatu; 11-27-2007 at 09:37.
Hardly a signifigant difference, though.
Asia ton Barbaron The new eastern mod for eb!
Laziest member of the team My red balloons, as red as the blood of he who mentioned Galatians.
Roma Victor!
Yous ee gishes?
Are you sure that Gaesatae were mentioned after Telamon?
BTW: What do you mean with "poor"?
Not so much money or bad soldiers? I would doubt both interpretations and I'm not a Roman fanboi.
The queen commands and we'll obey
Over the Hills and far away.
(perhaps from an English Traditional, about 1700 AD)
Drum, Kinder, seid lustig und allesamt bereit:
Auf, Ansbach-Dragoner! Auf, Ansbach-Bayreuth!
(later chorus -containing a wrong regimental name for the Bayreuth-Dragoner (DR Nr. 5) - of the "Hohenfriedberger Marsch", reminiscense of a battle in 1745 AD, to the music perhaps of an earlier cuirassier march)
Not so much money.
And sure, the romans were rich - but only once they'd pinched all the carthies and gauls money.
Asia ton Barbaron The new eastern mod for eb!
Laziest member of the team My red balloons, as red as the blood of he who mentioned Galatians.
Roma Victor!
Yous ee gishes?
I doubt that Carthago was so much richer than Rome between the first and second Punic war and the great sums they had to pay even when we consider the Spanish achievements of the Barcas. And when Carthago recovered even a little bit in the years before 150, the paranoiac Romans destroyed it immediatly.
"The Celts" hardly existed as a political factor. SPQR and allies were stronger and richer than every Celtic faction they faced. Italia south of the Po and Sicily and Sardinia and Corsica were relatively rich areas. You know that Telamon was the end of a big raid of the northern Italian Celts (plus mercenaries from beyond the Alps) to plunder Roman colonies.
Last edited by geala; 11-27-2007 at 14:38.
The queen commands and we'll obey
Over the Hills and far away.
(perhaps from an English Traditional, about 1700 AD)
Drum, Kinder, seid lustig und allesamt bereit:
Auf, Ansbach-Dragoner! Auf, Ansbach-Bayreuth!
(later chorus -containing a wrong regimental name for the Bayreuth-Dragoner (DR Nr. 5) - of the "Hohenfriedberger Marsch", reminiscense of a battle in 1745 AD, to the music perhaps of an earlier cuirassier march)
Prior to the First Punic War, Carthage was much, much richer than Rome; but they lacked national manpower for the army, so they relied on mercenaries. Italy (especially central and Southern Italy) and Sicily were rich because they were grain-exporting regions, in an era where agriculture dominated the economy. Northern Italy was (and is) less fertile but has more mineral ressources (not, however, much by way of precious metals--iron, however, they did have). Sardinia and Corsica were relatively poor (and stayed that way throughout history). The real strength of Italy, though, was the dense population--there seems to have been no end to the ammount fo manpower the Romans could draft.
And the will of the Romans citizens and their Italian allies to fight and die if need be, something the Carthaginians lacked, except when pressed by the Lacedaemonian Xanthippus.Originally Posted by CirdanDharix
But this is a wee bit off topic.
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod
Well, the Carthaginian citizens were often willing to fight and die, and the Italic allies of Rome (not the Romans themselves) were often willing to change sides if the Carthies looked like they were going to win (as happened on a large scale during the Second Punic War). AFAIK, all those Liby-Phoenicians we have in EB were technically citizens, if usually of lower social status than the pure-blooded descendants of the original colonists. More problematic to Carthage was internal division; the Romans never questioned whether they had to expand into Sicily and later along the Mediterranean coastline into Iberia. The Carthaginians did question whether they should expand overseas into Europe--which is what the merchants wanted--or in North Africa, which was then far more fertile than it is now--this second option is what the landowners wanted. So, from the start, you had people in Carthage arguing it wasn't worth fighting a war over their overseas possessions, and when the war didn't go well, the people who had opposed it from the start were bound to make political gains. There is evidence, though, that Carthage between the two Punic Wars was much like Germany in the 'tween wars period.
It is said that when the Roman senate convened following Cannae, two thirds of the senatorial body was missing. They had sacrificed their lives for the Republic. Meanwhile, in Carthage, the senators were sitting on their plump arses and, led by anti-war politicians such as Hanno, trying to call Hannibal back home. This is a generalization but you see what I mean.Well, the Carthaginian citizens were often willing to fight and die
Indeed. This is probably what Hannibal was intending to play on when he invaded Italy--the support of disgruntled Italian allies. According to Livy I believe, he told Italian soldiers captured at the Battle of Lake Trasimene, "I have come not to make war on the Italians, but to aid the Italians against Rome."the Italic allies of Rome (not the Romans themselves) were often willing to change sides if the Carthies looked like they were going to win (as happened on a large scale during the Second Punic War
I'd have to disagree on this point. The consuls of Rome were often members of the Fabii family, or their allies or subordinates. They were conservative, moderate, and never set foot outside of the Italian peninsula. However, for reasons unknown, the contemporary generation of Fabii were rather apolitical. As a result, another major family, the Claudii, held influence. Luckily for the Messanians (who were appealing to Rome for help prior to the First Punic War), the Claudii were expansionists who had a great interest in Sicily and had been pushing for Rome to build a fleet for 35 years now. For this reason, the Messanians appealed to the Claudian administration.More problematic to Carthage was internal division; the Romans never questioned whether they had to expand into Sicily and later along the Mediterranean coastline into Iberia.
My point is that there was political division.
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-Sir Winston Churchill
ΔΟΣ ΜΟΙ ΠΑ ΣΤΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΓΑΝ ΚΙΝΑΣΩ--Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth.-Archimedes on his work with levers
Click here for my Phalanx/Aquilifer mod
Originally Posted by Xehh IITindanotae has an officer where Gaesatae doens'tOriginally Posted by Thaatu
z
Hmm strange i was under the impression that the regions around the Po were the Italy's most fertile outside of Sicily... I learn something new everyday I guess...Originally Posted by CirdanDharix
So the Tindanotae having an officer makes them a better unit?
Well, its one more man to fight, isn't it?
Asia ton Barbaron The new eastern mod for eb!
Laziest member of the team My red balloons, as red as the blood of he who mentioned Galatians.
Roma Victor!
Yous ee gishes?
Bookmarks