What kind of animals are we?

[Don Corleone]

So, There's been a series of 'parents that never should have been' articles in the news lately. A couple in Detroit that killed their toddler and cremated his remains in their barbecue, sticking the unburnt portions up in their ceiling. Then there was one where a woman whipped her child to death with a belt on Thanksgiving Day. And of course, this horror show.

Now I know what people are going to say... that this is a small portion of the population...that I didn't know this child, or any of the others in recent news stories, etcetera. But I really honestly do feel sick inside when I read stories like this. Is there anything we can do? I may have to rethink my position on capital punishment.

[Fragony]

No such thing as we.

[Husar]

She looks soo cute.

I wonder what makes a parent do that? Alcohol? Some sort of mortal curiosity? Are they emotionless? I mean why would someone seriously consider doing that to their own child?

[Lemur]

Geez, Don, didja have to post that? As a parent, I'm sure you know, this is extra-upsetting. I'm going to go have a drink and attempt to forget I ever read that article.

[Don Corleone]

Well, how did you miss the story? It's plastered all over Foxnews and CNN and has been for several days.

I don't like stories like that any more than you do. It really does cause me pain to think about that poor little girl. I really could cry. But whether I read the article or not, stories like this one are happening every day.

We are the absolute worst species on the planet when it comes to caring for our young. And no society that tolerates things like this can make a legitimate claim to 'putting children first'. It's bullshit. We don't. Most Western nations don't. Kids are property, and parents are allowed way too much lattitude to be bad parents.

The more I read stories like this, the more reasonable Singapore looks.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Ouch, I got to about halfway into that story, then it started to make me physically ill and I stopped.

This is a tough subject, Don. To name but one aspect, do you want a government employee knocking on your door, having full rights to enter your house, and you yourself being questioned about whether you do nasty things with your daughter?

To what extent privacy and parental rights should be protected, where the balance needs to be, I don't know. I think I might want to have it shifted more in favour of child protection. But I realise this will come at a grievous cost too.

[Lemur]

Well, how did you miss the story? It's plastered all over Foxnews and CNN and has been for several days.

I have to admit, I haven't been subjected to cable news in months. My TV budget is small, time-wise, and I don't devote any of it to news. For that I've got my weekly Economist, a few blogs, Google News for a quickie overview, that sort of thing.

See the fun I miss? And I look forward to going on missing it. Ick. Ugh.

[RoadKill]

We are the most stupid, the most violent, the most ignorant, the most insane kind of animal.

[Don Corleone]

I have to admit, I haven't been subjected to cable news in months. My TV budget is small, time-wise, and I don't devote any of it to news. For that I've got my weekly Economist, a few blogs, Google News for a quickie overview, that sort of thing.

See the fun I miss? And I look forward to going on missing it. Ick. Ugh.

I meant their websites. I don't get much time for televison either. Although you do offer one solution... ignorance is bliss.

[Geoffrey S]

The only thing I can ever think of is to know thy neighbour. The only way to prevent these kind of horrors from taking place is to know people in the neighbourhood, to recognize signs. I don't know about exact cases, and I certainly haven't been around as long as most of you guys, but I think it's safe to say that over the years direct contact has become less frequent and in general contact with strangers (in shops, public transport etc.) has become colder. That is something we can work against, and something I'd hope lessens the chances of cases like these going unnoticed.

[Odin]

So, There's been a series of 'parents that never should have been' articles in the news lately. A couple in Detroit that killed their toddler and cremated his remains in their barbecue, sticking the unburnt portions up in their ceiling. Then there was one where a woman whipped her child to death with a belt on Thanksgiving Day. And of course, this horror show.

Now I know what people are going to say... that this is a small portion of the population...that I didn't know this child, or any of the others in recent news stories, etcetera. But I really honestly do feel sick inside when I read stories like this. Is there anything we can do? I may have to rethink my position on capital punishment.

You are a very compassionate person Don, I envy that trait. I've frankly dulled to it all. I was home early the other day about 2pm, turned on the tube and within 5 minutes saw 3 adverts for shows. CSI or some other crap, each one with a dead body, a screaming woman about to meet a horrible fate,a suave criminal.

I dont know man, the kids thing gets to me too. I'm for capital punishment myself, but I dont think thats really going to help the fringe cases. I had a pretty stern upbringing myself, I got the belt a couple of times but whipped to death? WTF

[Vladimir]

What's with mothers in Texas killing their children? It's been a good place to beat and drown them.

[KukriKhan]

What kind of animals are we?

Mostly: loving, caring, protective, providing ones.

Occasionally: brutal, selfish, pain-inflicting, murderous ones.

Tragically, (larger) group A often doesn't know about (smaller) group B until after-the-fact.

That's just the way it is, unless we revert to punishing sex outside of marriage, and licensing marriage at least as strictly as we license vehicle drivers.

edit: In my personal opinion.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Apes. With better positive qualities and worse negative ones.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Now I know what people are going to say... that this is a small portion of the population...

You're right, that's what I was going to say. Most of us humans aren't like that, and that is at least worth cheering over.

Is there anything we can do? I may have to rethink my position on capital punishment.

I don't think capital punishment is the way. I think it's important that all people have someone watching them. NOT the state - that's the route to absolutism and despotism. But to make sure that everyone has some relatives and friends around them - some "herd" - where everybody makes sure to visit each others every once in a while and check that everything looks ok. Many of these insane child abuse situations have been going on for a very long time and develop gradually, and so there is a good chance of detecting and stopping it while it's still, well not acceptable, but at least small enough that the child can be saved from permanent damages or death. It will not prevent all cases, but I think we'd have a much better society in other aspects as well if we would be able to ensure this. Globalization and constant movement of people in search of jobs (seems like almost every group of friends and relatives are split up all over the country on a regular basis) is a bad thing. Drugs also seems common among these child abusers. Alcohol is a well-known reason behind beating of children, but perhaps not so common among child murderers. Anyway, in short I think these deeds are signs of a generally ill society. From a psychological perspective, I find these types of abuses the most difficult to understand the causes behind. I'm afraid that apart from reducing general madness-causing worries, isolation, drugs etc. these types of crimes will be some of the crimes we'll have least chance of methodically reducing and/or stopping by clever preventive measures. As for punishment, forced sterilization and lifetime or near lifetime in jail is good enough as it - unlike death penalty - doesn't threaten personal integrity and safety of the citizen from rise of despotism.