Knights Hospitaller & Knights Templar

[Galain_Ironhide]

I just finished my English Grand Campaign recently and have now just started a new campaign as the Turks so I'm not likely to come back across this for a while. But....

Throughout the whole campaign I was only ever offered hospitaller Guilds and never any Templar Guilds. However I noticed in the Custom Battle selection screen you can actually use both of knights. Is this the case in the GC? Or are you only limited to one type of Knight depending on your race?

Just curious.....

[Zim]

I'm not sure there are any limits by faction for the Hospitaller and Templar guilds, other than catholic factions only.

I think that once you build one Order's guild, you can't build any for other Orders, so you won't be offered any for them.

[_Tristan_]

What Zim just said...

You can't get the Templar line of Guilds once you've chosen the Hospitaller one... The latter is IMHO a much better choice as it gives a health bonus that Templar guilds do not, with the exact same troops...

[ReiseReise]

You can have either but not both. It is easier to get Hospitaller. You get points towards both for doing Crusades and having high Chivalry governers. You also get Hospitaller points for declaring war against Muslim nations, and having Muslim neighbors.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Hospitallers are better knights as they can get an extra armor upgrade. You can have both if you capture a templar house when you already posses a hospitaller order house.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Also Knights Hospitaller have better discipline, and do not charge without orders.

[Galain_Ironhide]

Thanks for the answers

I must say during the campaign the Knights Hospitaller were one of my favorite units though. (This coming from an infantry fanatic )

Especially towards the end when I owned Caesaria, Trebizond and Adana which all had Hospitaller Guilds and I was able to pump out massive hordes of them. Alongside with 7-8 units of Retinue Longbowmen, 3-4 units of dism. English knights, 3 units of spears and a Kickass general, the poor mongols never had any chance.

[imnothere]

i tested, not sure if it is the case, but seems like Templars caused more casualties. ( i tested twice on vanilla. could be just me)

but i still prefer Hospitallers, - free health bonus at settlement and don't ran off after the first enemy chicken that show itself. God knows that it is hard enough to withdraw cavalry units that charged already. also extra armour upgrade (potential) could be a life-saver.

[DVX BELLORVM]

What's the story with the discipline? I don't think I ever saw Templars, or any other unit with the "may charge without orders" attribute to actually charge on their own. Does it really happen?

On the topic, I also prefer Hospitallers for the health bonus.

[Husar]

What's the story with the discipline? I don't think I ever saw Templars, or any other unit with the "may charge without orders" attribute to actually charge on their own. Does it really happen?

Same here, never saw that happen.

On the discussion, I like to chose those whose clothing fits better to the colour of my faction's horses.

[JoeDreck]

What's the story with the discipline? I don't think I ever saw Templars, or any other unit with the "may charge without orders" attribute to actually charge on their own. Does it really happen?

i never see, that a unit see an enemy and charge by themselve without order.

i look in the files and saw, that hospitalles have the "can_formed_charge" programed.

[WhiskeyGhost]

i think the "May charge without orders" doesn't mean they actually charge enemies without being told, but rather do idiotic things like engage enemies in proximity of them on their own. In other words, you tell them to attack a unit, and they attack it, and as the unit runs they decide to go attack another nearby enemy unit rather then chase the routers.

[ReiseReise]

Units charged without orders all the time in RTW. As any barb faction a lot of your units had "may charge without orders" so you had to watch your defensive lines very carefully or else a single unit would leave the line and charge when the enemy got close. Since they are the same game I imagine it could happen, although i have never seen it.

[Galain_Ironhide]

The only thing I have seen close to that, is when a unit of knights (any type) has left behind a couple of men and the enemy engages them, so then the rest of the unit charges back in. However that is the strange game mechanics and not the "May charge without Orders" trait.

I must say i do remember it in RTW and it is definately not the same in M2TW.

[Cheetah]

What's the story with the discipline? I don't think I ever saw Templars, or any other unit with the "may charge without orders" attribute to actually charge on their own. Does it really happen?

Yes, it does happen. The enemy has to be reasonably close, about charging distance.

[Cheetah]

i think the "May charge without orders" doesn't mean they actually charge enemies without being told,

It does mean. They do charge out without being told. Not very frequent though, and it is easy to miss in the heat of the battle.

[TheLastPrivate]

Templars are upgradable as well, I just did 3 mins ago when I finished my heavy armourer.
Templars are better knights imo due to heavier mass (different horse armor has different mass) which radically changes things in the charge business.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Templars can be upgraded to level 4 armor (partial plate), hospitallers can be upgraded to level 5 armor (full plate).

[Sheogorath]

Hospitlars just look cooler too.
I mean, black never goes out of style! Especially when youre wearing armor and have a big sword.

[imnothere]

hmm, i think that "charge without order" simply means that the darn thing likes to move on its own and twice as hard to remove from unwanted combat. (they keep charging BACK to the combat)

my first campaigns i was dumb enough to accept the first templar guild. with no armor upgrade ( i didnt know about armourer guild at the time ) and always rushing into the first combat, i can imagine that the whole map is full of the Templar Crosses...on the gravestones...

[JoeDreck]

this are my hospitallers and templars in the big campaign. i gave them a second unit, own banner and own barded horse. it's more easier now to not see the bugs.

[mir]

So... here's an interesting hypothesis...

Say I'm playing HRE. And I obtain the Teutonic Knights.

I then capture several Italian or other Catholic faction cities, which already have Hospitaller, Santiago and/or Templar Chapters in them.

Are the buildings destroyed? Or can I then actually train up all of them?

Anyone ever see this happening?

[_Tristan_]

From my knowledge, capturing a city with a different kind of guild doen't opened up the recruiting capbility of that guild...

Playing as France, i captured a Spanish Knight of Santiago Guild and couldn't recruit a single one (didn't appear in the recruitment queue at all)

However, the building are not destroyed but I would advise you to do it otherwise those "guild slots" are taken up... and you won't be able to build any other guild in those captured settlements...

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...

[JoeDreck]

you can't get other units, which you can't see in the single battle. hre are not list in the hospitaller lines.

edit: sorry, edit text. i wrote sh... and think something others.

[Jason X]

you can't recruit santiago, even if you capture a guild house, unless you are spain or portugal. similarly for capturing a teutonic if you are not HRE.

contrast this with the case where as any old catholic faction, you have a templar guild house and capture a hospitaller (or vice versa). this allows you to recruit both.

[TheLastPrivate]

A shame since Teutonic knights are arguably the best thanks to their AP maces and mailed horses..

[Anonymous II]

On the discussion, I like to chose those whose clothing fits better to the colour of my faction's horses.

Oh... I never knew each faction has their own color on their horses...