Punic name of Cartagena?

[CirdanDharix]

In all the books I've read, it's always called Cartagena or Carthago Nova, but what did the Carthaginians call it? I'm guessing not the direct translation of Carthago Nova, "Qart Hadasht Hadasht", because, well, it sounds retarded. As does its English translation, "New New City". So, are there any inscriptions that tell us what they called it? or any classical text that gives us a clue?

[Pharnakes]

so far as I know Qarth Hadast or new city, just as it is in-game. Duno why they would throw in an extra new

[Basileus Seleukeia]

He's referring to the Carthagena/Karthago Nova in Iberia, which was founded by the Barcids.

[CirdanDharix]

Not Carthage, Cartagena. You know, the Carthaginian colony Hasdrubal "the Handsome", son-in-law of Hamilcar Barca, founded in Spain ca. 223 BCE?

Unless you mean it was also called Qart Hadasht, which would surely have been confusing?

EDIT: Basileus Seleukeia beat me to it.

[Sarcasm]

Qart Hadasht, founded around 225-235 BC.

[Sakkura]

How did they avoid the seemingly inevitable confusion of identical names for important cities?

[anubis88]

they probably said Kart-Hadast in Iberia or something... The're were also many Alexandrias you know

[CirdanDharix]

Besides, didn't they have any imagination? When they build a city, they call it Qart Hadasht when it's big and Maqom Hadasht when it's not. When they build a trading outpost, they ask the natives what they should call it My faith in Punic inventiveness is fading.

[Sakkura]

they probably said Kart-Hadast in Iberia or something... The're were also many Alexandrias you know

Well the Alexandrias at least tended to get a sort of surname, like Alexandria Eschate, Alexandria Ariana etc.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well that so happens to be exactly what anubis hints at: Alexandreia Ariana means 'Alexandreia of Ariana' or 'Alexandreia in Ariana'. Alexandreia Eschate means 'Alexandreia [the] most far away'.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

A long time ago I decide if I ever found a city I'm going to name it "New Carthago Nova". The best part of that joke is when you tell it to someone and they have no idea what the joke is.

[TWFanatic]

Besides, didn't they have any imagination? When they build a city, they call it Qart Hadasht when it's big and Maqom Hadasht when it's not. When they build a trading outpost, they ask the natives what they should call it My faith in Punic inventiveness is fading.

Don't look to the Carthaginians for creativity in the choosing of names. They didn't excell in that area. Many of the names represented the importance of certain gods, such as Hamilcar and Bomilcar for Melqart, and Hasdrubal and Hannibal for Ba'al Hammon. When reading books on Punic history, I sometimes forget that they were not authored by Dr. Seuss.

And to address your original question: I believe Cartegena is the modern term, Carthago Nova the Latin term, and Qart-Hadast the Carthaginian term.

Which reminds me, there's a boat description for a Rome fleet which has not yet been fixed. It says "Roman word for Carthaginian goes here." The word would be Punic, of course.

[Maeran]

The quinquireme, yes.

Although, to be honest, why not just put 'quinquireme' in there? It is written from the Roman perspective. It's also in English, so 'giant Punic warship' would also work.

[CirdanDharix]

Don't look to the Carthaginians for creativity in the choosing of names. They didn't excell in that area. Many of the names represented the importance of certain gods, such as Hamilcar and Bomilcar for Melqart, and Hasdrubal and Hannibal for Ba'al Hammon. When reading books on Punic history, I sometimes forget that they were not authored by Dr. Seuss.

The -Ba'al endings do not necessarily mean Ba'al Hammon, since there is a nearly endless number of gods prefixed Ba'al, "lord": Ba'al Haddad, Ba'al Shamin, Ba'al Sapon, etc..Even Melqart was sometimes called Ba'al Sur, "lord of Tyre" or even Ba'al Melqart(although his primary name means "King of the City", interestingly enough the MLK root is the same as modern Arabic Malek(ملك) ). But yes, Carthaginian genealogies are boring: "this is the grave of Hamilcar, son of Hannibal, grandson of Hamilcar"...

[Pharnakes]

The -Ba'al endings do not necessarily mean Ba'al Hammon, since there is a nearly endless number of gods prefixed Ba'al

This is merely further evidence of Punic lack of imagination.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well then don't talk about the Romans or the Greeks: it's the simple result of a patronimicum.

Besides what do you think every Mac. & O' prefiix as in Mac.Donald, Mac.Gregor, O' Donell etc. etc. refers to? Or the -son suffix as in Hansson, Ericson etc. etc.?

[Strategy]

IMO, the very worst is the Roman naming of women. Ah, my dear Cornelia. And little sister Cornelia. And little little sister Cornelia.

Makes it hard to provide both something that is reasonably historically accurate, and user-friendly at the same time.

[Callicles]

Without any authority to back this up, I suspect that there were other ways to refer to the women in Rome that simply did not make it in to the written or oral tradition. Even if it was just nick names.

Of course, the evidence against this line of reasoning is that while it is understandable that Livy, Polybius, and Seutonius don't speak of nick names, there is a chance that the nick names should show up in Plautus or Terrence. And as far as I know, they don't.

----------------

As for New City New, that sounds weird to us, but in comparison, how many people when they read "New York" or "New Jersey" think of the name as an adjective and a noun? I suspect that many people slur the two together into a single entity in their mind. The opposite would be that the "New" would only be used as an adjective when there was risk of confusing the American City with the British one.

Just a thought as I was reading this.

[L.C.Cinna]

yes yes those Romans...always thinking practical and having no emotions.

so why give your children different names if it's easier to simply number them lol

[Tellos Athenaios]

Without any authority to back this up, I suspect that there were other ways to refer to the women in Rome that simply did not make it in to the written or oral tradition. Even if it was just nick names.

Sure there were. How about "wife of" or "sister of"? To my knowledge, the most personal way of adressing a women left from Roman days is the account of some husband's feelings towards his wife. But where did I read that translation?

[Tellos Athenaios]

yes yes those Romans...always thinking practical and having no emotions.

so why give your children different names if it's easier to simply number them lol

Ever read "Noble House"?

[Emperor Burakuku]

yes yes those Romans...always thinking practical and having no emotions.

so why give your children different names if it's easier to simply number them lol

Yes, but the roman numbers sound so nice... They really do. Septimus is the one I love the most. Hmm...

[Maeran]

As for New City New, that sounds weird to us, but in comparison, how many people when they read "New York" or "New Jersey" think of the name as an adjective and a noun? I suspect that many people slur the two together into a single entity in their mind. The opposite would be that the "New" would only be used as an adjective when there was risk of confusing the American City with the British one.

Just a thought as I was reading this.

Close to that, what will they call the new city if they rebuild New Orleans on a different site- something that at least appears to be a debate at the moment?

[Reverend Joe]

Close to that, what will they call the new city if they rebuild New Orleans on a different site- something that at least appears to be a debate at the moment?

Newer Orleans.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

New Naulinns?

[Mouzafphaerre]

Yes, but the roman numbers sound so nice... They really do. Septimus is the one I love the most. Hmm...

.
Seen Stardust?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The king has plenty of sons (Primus, Secundus, Tertius...Septimus and IIRC even Decimus) and a daughter (Una).

.

[Jaywalker-Jack]

Besides, didn't they have any imagination? When they build a city, they call it Qart Hadasht when it's big and Maqom Hadasht when it's not. When they build a trading outpost, they ask the natives what they should call it My faith in Punic inventiveness is fading.

Well, just about every second city in America has a name copied and pasted from somewhere else.

Anyway, in the past the names of cities were more like nicknames, for example so and so's city (eg Constantinople, Constantine's city) or something the settlement was associated with (eg Dublin, from Dubh Linn meaning dark pool - a deep harbour). So the Carthaginians new city in spain was simply "the new city, in spain".

[Thaatu]

Well, just about every second city in America has a name copied and pasted from somewhere else.

That's actually pretty funny if you think about this:

- Carthage, Arkansas
- Carthage, Illinois
- Carthage, Indiana
- Carthage, Maine
- Carthage, Mississippi
- Carthage, Missouri
- Carthage, New York
- Carthage, North Carolina
- Carthage, Ohio
- Carthage, South Dakota
- Carthage, Tennessee
- Carthage, Texas

Who comes up with these?

[antisocialmunky]

so why give your children different names if it's easier to simply number them lol

They do that in China sometimes. #1 Son, #2 Son... etc.