can't get the seleukia reforms...

[anubis88]

I've already lost 3 battles against Parthia with Cataprachts... My generals lost a few bodyguards just as the FAQ says, but i still didn't get them? Am I missing something?

[Intranetusa]

I think the loses have to be "huge." - like getting a huge army wiped out...?

[anubis88]

What does a HUGE battle look like? how many man must die?

[Tellos Athenaios]

The code is quite complex, yet isn't adapted to deal with various unit settings, and by the looks of it to have a real chance of acquiring the reforms you must play with large or hughe units; and have at least one major (i.e. big, massive armies) battle with a 'Cataphract Faction' in which the opponent deploys lot's of cavalry.

Look it up in the EBBS and export_descr_character_traits.txt files, for exact requirements.

[Constantine the Great]

The code is quite complex, yet isn't adapted to deal with various unit settings, and by the looks of it to have a real chance of acquiring the reforms you must play with large or hughe units; and have at least one major (i.e. big, massive armies) battle with a 'Cataphract Faction' in which the opponent deploys lot's of cavalry.

Look it up in the EBBS and export_descr_character_traits.txt files, for exact requirements.

So if I'm playing on normal unit size, it's impossible to get the reforms? That would be very unfortunate, I'm loving my Seleukid campaign.

[anubis88]

you should play like me on huge

Thanx for the info I'll look it up

[Pharnakes]

Sadly, not everyone's computer can handle huge...

[Constantine the Great]

you should play like me on huge

Thanx for the info I'll look it up

I always forget to change the unit size.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The amount of men shouldn't be too impossible. Just >250 on each side.

The difficult parts are > .7 battle odds and that you have to loose 20% of your army and 20% of the leading general's bodyguard. And, of course, loose the battle.

[Constantine the Great]

The amount of men shouldn't be too impossible. Just >250 on each side.

The difficult parts are > .7 battle odds and that you have to loose 20% of your army and 20% of the leading general's bodyguard. And, of course, loose the battle.

Ah, that's it? Then that should be very achievable. Just lead a stack of levis to the slaughter. Thanks.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

And remember that the enemy needs a decent amount of cataphracts for it to work. Going up against an army of 19 spearmen and 1 cata won't get the trigger.

[Xehh II]

Stupid question here but why doesn't baktria need a reform to get kataphraktoi?
I asked this before but it wasn't really answered.

[russia almighty]

It's cause the Baktrian's already knew about catatanks cause of there proximity to Pahlava and other steppe groups .

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

They currently start with cataphracts, but may get a cataphract reform in EB2.

[anubis88]

Damnit... I've tried all tipes of battles with the Parthians, but still no reform... Can anyone literally tell me what kinda of a battle needs to be waged? must it be fought on the battlefield? any information would be great. Plus if anyone has achieved them can he tell me how he did it?
Sorry for the trouble, just really wanna get the catas

[Emperor Burakuku]

I think 2/3 of your general's bodyguards must die in the battle. It doesn't matter if you lose or win it. Not sure though. And try more than half stack for each side.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Damnit... I've tried all tipes of battles with the Parthians, but still no reform... Can anyone literally tell me what kinda of a battle needs to be waged? must it be fought on the battlefield? any information would be great. Plus if anyone has achieved them can he tell me how he did it?
Sorry for the trouble, just really wanna get the catas

There are other points that were mentioned in another thread on this subject, like not before a certain date(look up the thread on one or two of the previous thread pages). I have made at least 3 attemps as far as I know, meeting all the requirements, but to no avail as yet.

[anubis88]

It states that the date should be at least 253bc. I'm now at 230 or sth... still nothing... I'm wondering if it works at all... Who knows, maybe the reform doesn't work since nobody seems to get them

[Tellos Athenaios]

You do have the EBBS fix installed, do you? Because there did exist a typo IIRC...

[anubis88]

i downloaded all the fixes from bovi... do you mean one in particular?

[JeffSteel]

Are cataphracts really worth it? It seems to me that Hetairoi seem to be just about as good as far as heavy calvary goes. While I too would like to get some cataphracts, I dont particularly want to engineer an huge military "disaster" by sacrificing a large army and possibly allowing the enemy to take one of my settlement.

[Seluceus]

The Seleukids don't really need cataphracts because of their wide selection of faction and local cavalry plus elephants and chariots. But if your not under severe stress from other factions then a little distraction shouldn't be too bad

[anubis88]

That doesn't change the fact that i think they are totally badass. That's what i wonna have them. And i don't like a unit that looks like the generals bodyguard in my army

[bovi]

Don't pursue the reforms. It does not make sense to willfully lose a battle so that the enemy can show its superiority. Play to win the battles, and let the loss happen if it happens.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Don't pursue the reforms. It does not make sense to willfully lose a battle so that the enemy can show its superiority. Play to win the battles, and let the loss happen if it happens.

The problem is the Seleukids, say at Rhapia for example fielded alot of cav(quite alot of it heavy, as far as I know), and it was the cataphracts who roughed up the Roman legionaires at Magnesia(I think).

In earlier versions of EB my Seleukid cav arm would consist of 1 companion and 2 cataphracts, now to have a decent heavy cavalry arm to represent what they actually had in reality, I may field 3 companion(who were not that numerous). Although I may see what I can recruit out East to make up this sad deficiency.

The Seleukids just don't feel like the Seleukids without their cav arm IMO.

[anubis88]

I totally agree with Digby Tatham Warter.... It just isn't the same

is there any way to trigger the reforms manually?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Sure there is. By chance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Open export_descr_buildings.txt and search for the precursor level of the "cataphract" building. That one will have a weapon bonus of -1; change it to 0 and you'll have your cats. Dunno if it's save-game compatible though.

Btw: Kinsmen cavalry are a quite useful and relatively affordable heavy cavalry arm.

[Digby Tatham Warter]

Sure there is. By chance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Open export_descr_buildings.txt and search for the precursor level of the "cataphract" building. That one will have a weapon bonus of -1; change it to 0 and you'll have your cats. Dunno if it's save-game compatible though.

Btw: Kinsmen cavalry are a quite useful and relatively affordable heavy cavalry arm.

Thanks for the post, I was thinking about the Kinsmen cavalry. When I finish shift I will check the recruitment viewer to see if I can get my grubs on the heavy cav who have a lion or is it a griffin on their shield, I think their called scythian nobles?

[burn_again]

Sure there is. By chance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Open export_descr_buildings.txt and search for the precursor level of the "cataphract" building. That one will have a weapon bonus of -1; change it to 0 and you'll have your cats. Dunno if it's save-game compatible though.

I have tried that and it did not work for me (I assume that if I start a new campaign, cataphracts should be available immediately if I build the necessary MIC-level).

I have noticed that there are no "cataphract" precursor buildings in my campaigns, like it was in 0.8, so perhaps this is the problem? I think I have all fixes installed..

[burn_again]

Ah, forget my last post, I see the precursor building comes with the reform now.

There is a way to cheat for the reform, if you'll give 2 of your FMs the ImpressedByCats trait you'll have your cataphracts 20 turns later. I tested it, worked fine, I had cataphracts in 267.