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Thread: Votes Defeat Chavez

  1. #1
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Votes Defeat Chavez

    Voters reject Chavez's referendum

    CARACAS, Venezuela (CNN) -- Venezuelan voters narrowly rejected a constitution referendum that would have bolstered President Hugo Chavez's embrace of socialism and grant an indefinite extension of his eligibility to serve as president, the National Electoral Council reported early Monday.

    About 51 percent of voters opposed the amendments, while approximately 49 percent were in favor of them.

    "Don't feel sad. Don't feel burdened," Chavez told supporters immediately after the results were announced.

    More than nine million of Venezuelan's 16 million eligible voters went to the polls Sunday.

    President of the National Electoral Council, Tibisay Lucena, said the process "shows the entire world that we are a democratic country."

    Chavez, in what he called a talk "from my heart" acknowledging the results, thanked those who opposed his proposal, saying the election had proven that Venezuelan democracy is maturing.

    Thousands of people gathered in the streets, many of them university students who worked to defeat the measure, burst into singing their country's national anthem upon hearing the news.

    Earlier in Caracas, Chavez -- clad in his trademark red shirt and cradling his grandson -- made the sign of the cross when he voted, then took his paper ballot and placed it in a box. "For me, it's a very happy day," he had said.

    He dipped his right pinky in ink, collected his paper receipt from the voting machine and then gave an uncharacteristically short talk with the news media.

    "Let's wait for the results tonight," he told reporters. "We'll accept them, whatever they may be."

    Chavez called Venezuela's electoral system "one of the most transparent in the world," and said its voting machines are among "the most modern of the world."

    At stake were 69 amendments proposed by Chavez, who has said he wants to steer Venezuela toward full socialism -- a state his detractors describe as full totalitarianism.

    The most controversial amendment would do away with term limits, thereby allowing the 53-year-old former paratrooper, who has already served almost eight years in power, to hold it indefinitely as long as he is re-elected.

    If the amendments were approved, Chavez could have run for president in seven-year terms.

    At present, the president's term runs six years, and current law would not allow Chavez to run again after his term ends in 2012.
    I applaud the people of Venezuela.



  2. #2
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    .
    Por que no te callas?

    Good move Venezuela. Getting rid of mandate is one thing, replacing it with native dictatorship, OTOH, is worse than merely negating it.
    .
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
    .

  3. #3
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    I guess now 51% of the country are traitors.


    Good job, Venezuelans!

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    // grabs some nuts

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Now we have to see if the will of the people will be respected and acknowledged, or like my vote against the European Constitution in France completely ignored and turn around. What a dictator this Sarkozy!
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Chavez still has a number of years left in power. Don't worry, he'll still get his way.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
    -Abraham Lincoln

  7. #7
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Of course, but I love a good magic show, especially dissapearing-acts.

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Nice! It just goes to show how little the people like surveillance and dictatorship-like measures being employed and developed in democratic countries - even if apparently Chavez has been good to the people in other ways, the hatred for despotism is so great that it overshadows it. Now if we could just depose of all surveillance/wiretapping maniacs in western Europe too... Oh wait, I forgot that all the major parties are already embracing the idea of police states so voting for someone else won't help. I guess I will always be able to flee to Venezuela when things get too hot here, because there the people is at least sensible.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 12-03-2007 at 10:46.
    Under construction...

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  9. #9
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Xiahou is right, Chavez has penty of time to make up the 2% variance in a future vote.
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

    Sua Sponte

  10. #10
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    It will happen I believe. Just not now. That buys us all a bit more time. Thank you people of Venezuela.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  11. #11
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Hurrah!!!

    No need for perpetual presidencies!

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
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    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  12. #12
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Interesting.

    First sign that Chavez' demagogic style has been out of sync with a majority of Venez' citizens.

    They're clearly willing to give him a few more years to pursue his agenda, but reluctant to enhance his chances of being "President for Life."

    Will this effort be renewed ad nauseum as with the referenda on Quebec independence?

    Would such a renewal favor Chavez or worsen his position?

    Interesting.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    I am surprised it was so close , I expected a much bigger defeat for the referendum .
    Even the original proposals would have been a close call , but then with all the other amendments Chavez added and the 30+ his coilition partners added it was just too big and too diverse for a simple yes/no vote on the entire proposal .

  14. #14
    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    About 51 percent of voters opposed the amendments, while approximately 49 percent were in favor of them.
    Congratulations. You have another chance of keeping your liberty.




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  15. #15
    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Pretty slim victory for the people that want a democracy huh?

    And that much support for chavez? (49% want him to to stay indefinitly) that goes to show Chavez must be a loved king in Venezuela.

  16. #16
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    I am surprised it was so close , I expected a much bigger defeat for the referendum .
    So did I, and I am rather disappointed that the margin is so small. I had hoped that the student movement that led the 'No' vote would have more influence by now, as would some of the unions who do not equate socialism with Hugo C. alone. But give them some time and hopefully they will make the Supremo manageable yet.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

  17. #17
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    I don't know. Venezuela has redistributed the wealth that has often tended to be concentrated, and has provided for the poor Venezuelans in the nation. Unfortunately, his ideas don't mesh with mine, and I wish he wasn't so crazy.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  18. #18
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    I salute the people of Venezuela in their rejection of Hugo's plan to turn it into another Russian-style pseudo-democracy de-facto dictatorship.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  19. #19
    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg
    I salute the people of Venezuela in their rejection of Hugo's plan to turn it into another Russian-style pseudo-democracy de-facto dictatorship.
    Oh please... Can we stop this free cheesy kind of hyperbole?

    It's really getting old and ridiculous, specially for Chavez...

    I cannot believe people really believe that crap...
    Born On The Flames

  20. #20
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son
    Pretty slim victory for the people that want a democracy huh?

    And that much support for chavez? (49% want him to to stay indefinitly) that goes to show Chavez must be a loved king in Venezuela.
    I honestly can't understand why term limits is such a big thing. I see it as complete nonsense, really. How many countries with voting and without term limits are dictatorships?

    The thing people should be worried about, is the change that would make it easier to call a state of emergency, but then again, the anti-chavez people here are dying to have that ability in their own country, so...
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  21. #21
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    As much as I love Chavez, I am glad the people of Venezuela made the right decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    How many countries with voting and without term limits are dictatorships?
    The region has a history of political instability and anything that can be done to avoid this, such as Term Limits, are for the best.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
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  22. #22
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach
    The region has a history of political instability and anything that can be done to avoid this, such as Term Limits, are for the best.
    No democratic south american leader will ever avoid a coup long enough for it to matter anyway
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  23. #23
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Don't let Chavez hear you, or you might be branded a 'Puppet of President Bush'
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  24. #24
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin
    Xiahou is right, Chavez has penty of time to make up the 2% variance in a future vote.
    Or to bring the seven million who didn't vote to the polls.

  25. #25
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II
    So did I, and I am rather disappointed that the margin is so small. I had hoped that the student movement that led the 'No' vote would have more influence by now, as would some of the unions who do not equate socialism with Hugo C. alone. But give them some time and hopefully they will make the Supremo manageable yet.
    When did you become so naive Adrian, blimey.

    People state that this vote was one for 'democracy'. Just because a yes win would have made Chavez eligable to stay in power for unlimited terms, it doesn't mean that he wouldn't have democratic, free and fair elections. Chavez is not only one of the most beloved leaders by his people, but is one of the most democratically elected ones to boot.

    I wanted a yes vote because it would have institutionalised his reforms and made it that much harder for the US and their puppet opposition in Venezuela to try and unwrap all the good Chavez has done, continues to do and will do in the future.

    Hopefully - as there should be with a vote this tight - there will be another chance for the people to vote yes, maybe this time a more basic easier to win vote, with the same principles at it's core though.

    Anyway, what really killed this vote for Chavez were the 'disloyal friends' of Chavez who came out with the absurd claims in the media. Chavez was and still remains, one of the greatest leaders of any nation at this present time and long may it continue.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  26. #26
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach
    The region has a history of political instability and anything that can be done to avoid this, such as Term Limits, are for the best.
    HA! And why do you think that is?!

    Deary me, people can't open their eyes. For more years than any of us have been alive - and then some - the US has caused this 'political instability' and have meddled, constantly, in South American affairs. It is good to see South America starting to stand up for itself, when Chavez helps the poor in the US through his intitiatives - and elsewhere for that matter - maybe even some Americans will start to realise that their government fed bullsh.. aint what it cracked up to be, and likewise their system for that matter.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  27. #27
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    HA! And why do you think that is?!

    Deary me, people can't open their eyes. For more years than any of us have been alive - and then some - the US has caused this 'political instability' and have meddled, constantly, in South American affairs. It is good to see South America starting to stand up for itself, when Chavez helps the poor in the US through his intitiatives - and elsewhere for that matter - maybe even some Americans will start to realise that their government fed bullsh.. aint what it cracked up to be, and likewise their system for that matter.
    Yes we are aware it isnt what its cracked up to be, thankfully we have lots of people around the world who make claims that the U.S. is the cause of instability, strife and general havoc.

    Your a god sent to isolationist like me, please keep up the good work.
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

    Sua Sponte

  28. #28
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Summon the devil to protect us from the evil U.S.


    JAG, Odin - I think that you'll get your way soon enough. Then, Venezuela will become a mainland Cuba and Chavez can begin his subversion of neighboring governments in order to establish a growing South American counterbalance to the U.S.

    Congratulations.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 12-07-2007 at 14:18.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  29. #29
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    Summon the devil to protect us from the evil U.S.


    JAG, Odin - I think that you'll get your way soon enough. Then, Venezuela will become a mainland Cuba and Chavez can begin his subversion of neighboring governments in order to establish a growing South American counterbalance to the U.S.

    Congratulations.
    What is it with you this week? After all we have been through cant I get a thumbs up smiley or some other sarcastic icon?

    "counterbalance" to what exactly? Our international influence? We were never meant to have this much prowess in world affairs Tuff. Since the spanish american war we have made a mockery of the founding fathers principles of international relations.

    We need to pull back and invest in the republic, South america, cuba chavez they can take care of themselves now dont you think?
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

    Sua Sponte

  30. #30
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Votes Defeat Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin
    What is it with you this week? After all we have been through cant I get a thumbs up smiley or some other sarcastic icon?

    "counterbalance" to what exactly? Our international influence? We were never meant to have this much prowess in world affairs Tuff. Since the spanish american war we have made a mockery of the founding fathers principles of international relations.

    We need to pull back and invest in the republic, South america, cuba chavez they can take care of themselves now dont you think?
    The New World belongs to us. It is as simple as that. Thus, if some wacko comes to power in Caracaz, that is *our* business because that is *our* backyard. Watching Chavez try to become a king of Venezuela is painful enough, but doing nothing to contain him just because he's to the South of Rio Grande will come back and bite us. This is our shpere of interests and our sphere of influence, from Barrow to Cape Horn.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

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