default_melee_state

[Red Spot]

Been tempering with descr_formations_ai and specially liked to discuss the default_melee_state flag a bit more ..

There are a few flags that are used in the vanilla files (though not in the _ai version) that actually work;
-fire_at_will
-defend
-skirmish

and there are flags(to hopefully counter the above mentioned flags) that are used by others that dont seem to work, at least not for me;
-engage_at_will
-attack
-hold_fire

wich often means formations are bugged cause of settings that are aplied during deployment, wich is in a defensive formation where often flags as "defend" are used, now as there doesnt seem to be any way to disable the defend stance it means the unit will hold its defensive stance in an attack

Now I dont know perhaps that BI 1.6 doesnt like the user-found flags or I somehow havent used them properly even once, but I simply cant get them to work, they simply wont get a unit out of its defensive stance.
I also cant seem to find some flag by trying stuff like "attack_at_will" or "engage" and seem to just be able to fill in whatever I want where sometimes the entire command doesnt work because of a incorrect flag and sometimes the command does the correct stuff even though it has an incorrect part.

So I'm about to give up hope of ever setting the AI in a defensive stance as it does seem to by default make my attack formations buggy no matter how well the AI may use them (attacking with units on defend doesnt work all that well it seems :D)
Yet I cant ingnore entire lines of mods having adapted the found flags even though I cant get them to work, maybe I missing something here??


G

[Aradan]

The engage_at_will command has worked fine for me, it will make the units behave more aggressively when they are close to the enemy.
If you just lose the 'default_melee_state defend' line for offensive formations, the AI units will be properly functioning in attack. At least this has always been the case with my formations.

[Red Spot]

well it isnt the case in my formations, I've also run a few test too see if units actually have the defend flag removed and they do not seem to
(easy way too test is make 2 player formations and than switch the formation in the deployment fase, nothing happens ... the command does not work ...)

Do note the units attack just fine, are as agressive with as without "engage_at_will" its just that they dont "swarm around" a unit as they do without the defend flag (something you can even see if paying a bit attention)

Could you do me a favour and test your formations under human control, by adding the formations to the formations file, I've tested my own and several others and none of the non-vanilla flags work for me in all of these formations (the more testing I do the harder I find it too believe it actually even exists, let alone work ....no offence intended ...)


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[Red Spot]

did a lot more testing in both BI 1.6 and Rome 1.5 and am pretty convinced the so called discovery of new melee-flags is fiction, it doesnt exist

just to point this out the "default_melee_state" as it already says, sets a melee state on the unit, something you can "view" as it basicly just pushes one of the melee-state buttons for you, set the defend flag and there is no way to remove it again ....
(same as density only uses loose or close and you cant just make it say medium or whatever .... even though the engine swallows it)

Anyway I'm starting my own research from scratch now as I no longer have any faith in the established bit of research as to me its like a placebo(sp?) ....



G

[Makanyane]

you may be interested in bits I wrote up a while ago:
http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/Descr_formations_ai.txt

basically on similar theme that that file will swallow inventions....
I got rather fed up with trying to work out what actually worked though and kept to really simple single melee states in the end.

[Red Spot]

first of all about the discovery of certain aspects of the formations file ..

check the player version, little real discoveries have been made, just presenting things that seemingly arent being read by others ...

anyway personally I've gotten a bit fet up with the whole Darth vs Sinuhet war after I've been reading up on both of their sub-forums and am completelly ignoring their findings as they're like I said above kind of placebo-like .....


couple of notes on melee state;
you can change "default melee states"(eg; archer starting with skirmish on normally) by just giving them the skirmish command, than the fire at will mode is toggled off, or set the fire at will mode will toggle of skirmish (wich normally is on on archers)
you can influence things by setting an other command/state, but there dont seem to be any "enage_at_will" or "attack" or "hold_fire" flags, just the ones that are also used in the player version of formations file

at least any test or logic I release on this subject provides me with these results (not trying to put down others work, however also wont ignore my findings just cause it might prove someone is or might be wrong)



G