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  1. #1
    Finder of Little Oddities Senior Member Makanyane's Avatar
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    Default Re: default_melee_state

    I'm not wanting to get into and argument about other peoples formations, if it looks like it works and players are happy, all is good

    but
    My comparison was more geared to the actual default_melee_state flag itself. If we were truly dealing with pure absolutes as it's relative to this flag, then by definition, how could it be possible that this flag excepts fictional code?
    just to say it definitely will take fictional code eg: blah_blah that's the info I wrote up on the Wiki, that turns the skirmish and fire at will buttons off by default, so if your new discovery also does that you need to be very sure it's actually doing anything apart from making it use a default setting that must be in the code to override unrecognised commands. A lot of combined states gave that same effect; fire_at_will_and_engage_at_will however seemed to at least pass that test as the fire_at_will still toggled on correctly, but I didn't get any further being able to tell what effect it was having in game.
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  2. #2
    Notepad user Member Red Spot's Avatar
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    Default Re: default_melee_state

    the game has hardcoded routines for melee_state, like archers always start with fire_at_will and skirmish ...

    if you give a (any) melee_state command the hardcoded routines are overridden by the melee_state command, meaning if you pass an incorrect argument the game doesnt use it (it simply doesnt know what to do with it) but it will also toggle of any melee_state the game would normally set

    so the use of say "engage_at_will" could be simply used to make sure archers dont skirmish nor fire at will, but if you want to make sure they dont skirmish you need to tell them to fire at will ... (hope you get my point here ...)


    Lysander ..

    Any code can be made to take fictional code, I've done quite some coding myself and that is just the way I always code, to prevent freezes and CTD's, though like in this case it may than present you with people that have discovered stuff that I never implemented in the code (wich simply isnt there!) cause the game didnt freeze/CTD when they tried ...

    Anyway I dont really understand why you still are after melee_state and wether it is hard or not to test, as you can "see" everything by testing flags on the players army, your units are the same as that of the AI ....

    Though I can accept you may not agree, I wont change my opinion about this nor any statement as I even feel I've been mild towards some claimed discoveries and will stick with my statement that this is the same as say modding traits, once you know the commands its as straightforward as can be ... its the final tweaks that take the time, making your own prefrences visable in your work ...


    G

  3. #3
    The Aspiring God Of War Member Lysander13's Avatar
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    Default Re: default_melee_state

    Originally Posted by Makanyane
    I'm not wanting to get into and argument about other peoples formations, if it looks like it works and players are happy, all is good
    Indeed, the words of the ever wise Mak....
    BTW, i'm not arguing per say, as i also don't want to argue about other people's work. Perhaps playing devil's advocate would be more accurate..

    but

    just to say it definitely will take fictional code eg: blah_blah that's the info I wrote up on the Wiki, that turns the skirmish and fire at will buttons off by default, so if your new discovery also does that you need to be very sure it's actually doing anything apart from making it use a default setting that must be in the code to override unrecognised commands. A lot of combined states gave that same effect; fire_at_will_and_engage_at_will however seemed to at least pass that test as the fire_at_will still toggled on correctly, but I didn't get any further being able to tell what effect it was having in game.
    No..No..No...I'm not claiming to have made any "new" discovery. I'm not saying i coded in kill_them_all and it worked or didn't for that matter and achieved the results you speak of. I make no claims whatsoever Mak of contesting your Wiki write-up. By "fictional code" i only meant the tags discussed here in this thread..i.e..engage_at_will, fire_at_will..etc...The issue of course being are these tags fictional code as some would argue or are they valid as other's would report. My whole point to playing devil's advocate is Red Spot could very well be making some great points but if let's say DV or Sinuhet jumped into this thread; I am certain they could make a very compelling argument for their work as well based on their "observations". In the end..perhaps just two different schools of thought is all.

    Originally Posted by Red Spot
    Anyway I dont really understand why you still are after melee_state and wether it is hard or not to test, as you can "see" everything by testing flags on the players army, your units are the same as that of the AI ....
    Well, i'm still on it because i was under the impression that was the topic of this thread.......
    I don't recall saying it was hard to test. My whole point friend is since once it's "go" time on the battlefield, all the testing is empirical in it's nature. (This is presuming the one testing/modding got everything right up to this point as it's relative to the code in the file that is ) So what one believes he's observing could be percieved differently by another.

    Though I can accept you may not agree, I wont change my opinion about this nor any statement as I even feel I've been mild towards some claimed discoveries and will stick with my statement that this is the same as say modding traits, once you know the commands its as straightforward as can be ... its the final tweaks that take the time, making your own prefrences visable in your work ...
    By all means friend, i wasn't necessarily trying to convince you to change your opinion or anyone else's for that matter. Like you, i'm only relaying my own opinion. I feel perhaps you may have been a bit harsh towards DV and Sinuhet's research and work in this area.....but again.....we can agree to disagree. As Mak put it...It's all good...

    In the end friend, i hope you continue your research and perhaps make an exceptional find in this area. Good Luck and Happy Modding....

  4. #4
    Notepad user Member Red Spot's Avatar
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    Default Re: default_melee_state

    something probably already known to some, but now I'm sure about it as well ... :D

    reinforcing armies have the potential of forming a single army;


    now have to remove the max of 1 generals unit in the generals block for reinforcing armies :)


    Edit;
    count the units in this army ... what 20unit army limit ..?!? :D




    G
    Last edited by Red Spot; 12-10-2007 at 04:42.

  5. #5
    Shaidar Haran Senior Member SAM Site Champion Myrddraal's Avatar
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    Default Re: default_melee_state

    Nice work, some of this work would make a great pack for the normal game, or any mod for that matter...

  6. #6
    Notepad user Member Red Spot's Avatar
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    Default Re: default_melee_state

    WOOOHA!! ...

    I've found a way to disable the "defend" flag ...

    look here, 2 battles, both times the AI and me had the defend flag set;
    deployment, same for both battles;


    battle1;




    battle2;




    check the last picture of both battles, can you spot the difference?? :)

    What I did is set the units density to loose and keep the defend flag set.
    Now the unit runs up to pilum range, stops, reloads a pilum, charges, reloads a pilum, recharges, and seemingly than looses its defend flag, as at that point it looses unit-formation and swarms my troops, giving more fighting room for the individual soldier ...

    me happy ... :)


    G

  7. #7
    Finder of Little Oddities Senior Member Makanyane's Avatar
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    Default Re: default_melee_state

    looking interesting

    am asking here instead of clogging up the scriptorium tut, which looks very useful btw... but having seen discussion on defend flag staying set, I'm wondering if anyone knows if its meant to work same way in BI, have tried adding it to various formation blocks and although it defaults to guard mode when you use them, AI seems to switch off / ignore it (or I've done something wrong)
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  8. #8
    Notepad user Member Red Spot's Avatar
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    Default Re: default_melee_state

    Thanks for the compliment Mak. ;)

    though I guess you have done something wrong then, as I've based this all on BI 1.6 (well, Rome running under BI ...), though some has also been double checked in Rome 1.5 with the same end-results (why also as long as nothing pops-up I'll assume they work the same way)

    set the prio. of the formation you want the AI to use "way up", so you more or less force the formation upon the AI, works then you at least know the AI didnt like the formation for the army (or it may have an error)

    If you want I dont mind having a look for you, via PM or here doesnt matter.


    G

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