Arab/Middle Eastern Paganism

**cmacq** · 12-05-2007, 23:00

Originally Posted by J.Alco

What do you mean by questions 2 and 5 being in error? Do you mean that they contradict the other questions asked? Or are you referring to the theological debate they seem to have started? Or that asking where I can find such information, and why more research has not been done, is incorrect, since there IS information and research HAS been done.

Right, yes to all reasons. There's a lot more to that theological debate, yet I'm sure too many here have heard it too many times before.

Originally Posted by J.Alco

.Question 4 simply means why aren't people in predominately Islamic countries in the middle-east once again worshipping Pagan religions (Like, for example, people in Yemen going back to the Saba religion) like is being done in European countries (i.e People worshipping Reconstructionist Paganism in Greece, which is a predominately Greek Orthodox nation)?
Hope that clarifies things a bit.

Well, I'm sure the answer to the last part (question 4) is actually very simple, but this will no doubt set off a fire-strom. I may add, a fire-storm I have neither the Time nor Inclination to Ignite.

**Hax** · 12-06-2007, 00:36

Well,

I certainly know that in Turkey, far off from major cities such as Istanbul and Ancara, that people still practice a mix of Pagan believes with Islamic influence.

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To answer question 4), you must understand that many countries in the middle-east have not yet accepted the relatively open-minded thinking that Europe has.

And for all you people that attack Islam, I'd suggest going out there, or just visit a Mosque in your surrounding, and ask about Islam. Or heck, just read the Koran before you start calling it a bad religion.

For all you interested, I am not a muslim. I am a Celtic reconstructionist Pagan, with influences from Hellenism. My father however, is a muslim and my mother is a reformed Christian, so I consider myself to be pretty neutral.

I have a way of thinking about religion. It's that religion itself doesn't call to violence, but as soon as it starts getting organized, with people telling other people what to do (e.g. Catholic priests, Imams, Rabbis) it is going the wrong way.

**russia almighty** · 12-06-2007, 00:37

TPC is gonna rape you thats all I'm gonna say .

**Hax** · 12-06-2007, 00:43

Well, I really have no intention of turning this into a flame-war discussion again, so if it makes you feel better, I'll edit my post

**cmacq** · 12-06-2007, 01:14

The Koran?
What is this Koran?

As you all may know, the Koran was, by its very name and nature, never meant to be written down.

How could one read, that which was never written? Or better still, read that which was never meant to be, written by pretenders to a throne?

And...

in truth this Dissertation was only meant to be spoken in Arabic. As only the true believer, consider Arabic the only sacred language. Thus, in the eyes of the all mighty, the only tongue of any consequence.

I kanna read Arabic even if'n wrote down.

**Watchman** · 12-06-2007, 01:27

I was under the impression there was no problem translating that book per se; the translation just isn't a religiously valid holy text anymore.

I understand the Caliphs threw that bit in because they could, looking at the Christians, well see just what kind of trouble religiously valid translations could be...

**cmacq** · 12-06-2007, 01:42

If these words are not 'Prophetic Pronouncement,' what value would they hold for the true believer?

For far different reasons I've a lot of experience with this sad subject; 'Prophetic Pronouncement.' Talk of kith or kin have no bearing herein. Yet, in rational terms this is the only glue that holds everything together. All else given to an apparent spontaneous emergence is little more than trimming on the cake. There are other examples and similar methods and claims, and they are always the same. Magical Words, in a Sacred Language, within a 'Prophetic Pronouncement.' This is why the true believe can always be right, and all others can always be wrong.

**Horst Nordfink** · 12-06-2007, 01:41

I worry that I may have been dragged into this somewhat dubious situation of racism because I posted at the start, and it has gone downhill somewhat towards racial stereotypes and anti-muslim bias.

I'm not one of these people that feels the need to quantify his lack of racism by how many black or asian friends he has. In the part of England I live in, there aren't that many immigrants compared to other places in the country. Although we do have a dispropitionate amount of Poles.

I have one "muslim" friend. His name is Cyrus and he is from Iran. He follows Islam in much the same vein that I follow Christianity; which is very haphazardly to say the least. Cyrus is one of the most sound guys I have ever had the pleasure to meet. My life is enriched by me considering him a friend.

As an ardent atheist, I have already fallen out with my mother over my religious stance (or lack of it). I will probably fall out with my girlfriend and her family (and mine) when I announce my dissapproval of my coming child to be Christened.

I think Islam has got a bad crack from the western media since 11th September 2001. I disagree with Dayve's view of Islam, I find it to be as peaceful and caring as any other religion I have come across. You cannot judge all muslims by the actions of the few! Christianity is one of the most violent and repressive religions ever known by man over the years. Not everything that is bad in the world can be blamed on muslims or immigrants.

**Calypze** · 12-06-2007, 21:09

The polytheism of ancient Arabia might be somewhat scarce. What can be found are reports of outside sources, reports of Islamic sources and archeology. However, I don't think they had the same gods in all of Arabia. For example, the Sabaeans didn't worship exactly the same gods as the Meccans.

However, outside of Arabia it is not too scarcely documented. Egyptian mythology is well-known, and to some extent Persian mythology as well, as many gods lived on as angels in Zoroastrianism.

Originally Posted by Elphir

And for all you people that attack Islam, I'd suggest going out there, or just visit a Mosque in your surrounding, and ask about Islam. Or heck, just read the Koran before you start calling it a bad religion.

Yeah, it's nothing wrong with crucifying or beheading non-Muslims, right? Muhammed never hurt anyone, right?

Have a look at what various ex-Muslims think about Islam:

http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://www.apostatesofislam.com
http://www.islam-watch.org

**cmacq** · 12-06-2007, 21:17

Let's not get nasty, as there are true believers on all sides. I've just been trying to cut through some of the propaganda and answer a few questions.

**J.Alco** · 12-06-2007, 21:42

Originally Posted by Calypze

The polytheism of ancient Arabia might be somewhat scarce. What can be found are reports of outside sources, reports of Islamic sources and archeology. However, I don't think they had the same gods in all of Arabia. For example, the Sabaeans didn't worship exactly the same gods as the Meccans.

However, outside of Arabia it is not too scarcely documented. Egyptian mythology is well-known, and to some extent Persian mythology as well, as many gods lived on as angels in Zoroastrianism.

Yeah, it's nothing wrong with crucifying or beheading non-Muslims, right? Muhammed never hurt anyone, right?

Have a look at what various ex-Muslims think about Islam:

http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://www.apostatesofislam.com
http://www.islam-watch.org

Calpyze, I have said it before and I'll say it again, I do NOT want this sort of thing going on in this topic. I thank you for answering some of my points, but please, I don't want anybody accusing any religion of anything, I just want some simple answers to my questions on pre-islamic religion in the middle east. That's all.