Wind power now considered environmentally unfriendly

[Tribesman]

Wind farms can cause extensive environmental damage , but the objections by this group concerning birds are pretty much bollox , so the fact remains that an extensive environmental impact report is a neccesity (but you would have thought that such a report would be par for the course anyway) .
So is this obejection about the scope of the report and survey or just the proposed project itself ?

[Don Corleone]

Wind farms can cause extensive environmental damage , but the objections by this group concerning birds are pretty much bollox , so the fact remains that an extensive environmental impact report is a neccesity (but you would have thought that such a report would be par for the course anyway) .
So is this obejection about the scope of the report and survey or just the proposed project itself ?

From what I understand the group is suing to be included and have supervisory control of the project. It was implied in the article that the group wanted to actually use that role to block the project, or at least regulate it heavily.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

From what I understand the group is suing to be included and have supervisory control of the project.

Siggied!

[Don Corleone]

Siggied!

I'm not certain why that particular statement strikes you as signature-worthy, but okay...

[Tribesman]

I just hadn't heard anything about negative environmental impacts of wind farms.

Mainly the real ngatives concern the actual construction and the impact of that process and the maintainance of those structures on the surrounding areas , and of course the associated power lines be they at sea or on land . (though of course you get people compalining about the visual impact too of both the turbines and lines)

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

From first hand experience, I know that noise pollution is another key issue. If certain as of yet unknown conditions are met, then the turbines produce large amounts of noise which can be problematic for self explanatory reasons. Even if these circumstances are not met, they do still emit a sound at an audible level - especially if the turbines are working at higher capacity.

Although I've heard very little about this, there have been events of collapsing wind turbines - this mainly occurs to the larger models due to more weight being placed upon their structure. An article related to this can be found here.

[HoreTore]

Stick the wind farms out in the north sea. Then everybody will be happy.

[rvg]

Stick the wind farms out in the north sea. Then everybody will be happy.

That's what they did in Texas: put a bunch of turbines in the Gulf of Mexico for some cheap and reliable energy. Of course, the tree-huggers felt compelled to start their usual wailing and moaning on behalf of poor birdies.

[Blodrast]

I remember having read about some issues with lots of birds getting killed by turbines... but I don't remember the context, nor numbers, however the point remains that I'd heard about it being an issue. But drone may have a point, I'll need to look into that.

Tribesman, I wasn't aware of any other environmental impact of wind farms... leaving aside the aesthetic aspect (which isn't environmental impact), what other problems are there?
How/why is agriculture affected ?
As for power lines, well, don't we have that _anyway_, for transporting electricity ? Regardless of what method to generate it we'd be using, we'd still need the lines to transport it to the consumer, so I don't quite understand the argument...

I'm thinking right now of a trip to Cali, where I've seen a few hundred of wind turbines on hills, areas which could have definitely not been used for any agricultural or real estate development - it was just arid, stony, hills. I remember thinking that was a pretty damn good way to use that land, which would otherwise have gone unused, like I said.

[Don Corleone]

Mainly the real ngatives concern the actual construction and the impact of that process and the maintainance of those structures on the surrounding areas , and of course the associated power lines be they at sea or on land . (though of course you get people compalining about the visual impact too of both the turbines and lines)

Yeah, but human activity is always going to leave a mark. All bio-activity leaves a mark for that matter. Why is a beaver dam 'natural' and Hoover damn an abomination against nature?

I don't think we want guys throwing the scraps into the ocean while they're putting the things together, yeah, we should try to limit the impact, but honestly, there's very little we do that doesn't leave a footprint of one form or another.

One of my big 'sniff-detectors' in debates is the ability to see the gray. Thus far, the environmental crowd has failed this miserably. They seem to poo-poo any form of energy generation because it will leave some mark. But there's no discussion of which is better, which is tolerable, and where is the lesser evil. They just have a theocratic all or none approach. I usually interpret that as a sign of limited cognitive ability.

[Spino]

Think of the birds?!?

WTF, have the majority of our flighty feathered friends suddenly become blind to massive, white rotating thingies that generate much wind and noise?!? Geez, why don't we simply paint giant eyes on the generators like they do to commercial aircraft engine intakes. Zomg, giant one eyed whirling thingy, fly away my brethren, fly away!

Yes, I know birds get slammed by planes but that's usually a question of which way little birdy happens to be looking before the plane hits.

Any bird that chances flying near these things and gets whacked will perish thus removing their not-so-attentive genes from the gene pool. The smarter, more observant ones will take note, avoid and survive. The really swift of mind and wing might even find a way to safely nest around these things. Natural selection FTW!!!

Screw the birds, I'd sooner worry about some sub-100 IQ dipwad pulling a John F'ing Kennedy Jr. and smashing his single engine plane into one of these things in the middle of some foggy night.

I'm a big fan of wind power, moreso than traditional solar power. Less expensive with lower manufacturing costs and other headaches. And depending where you put the generators the payoff is usually greater. Although isn't there some really efficient form of solar power that doesn't involve panels but concerns the focusing of light on oil in a glass tube? For the life of me I cannot recall what this is called but I believe there is a plant in the US based on this technology.

[Papewaio]

Best choice of energy generation should be chosen for the location and the needs of the community.

If someone is looking for absolute answers then they should be building a temple instead.

[Tribesman]

Supervisory in which manner Don and at what level ?
I can think of two recent local wind farm projects where full and limited supervisory oversight was exluded with very bad results (in one case a very expensive and yet to be more expensive bad result) , both due to a lack of impact reports or failure to follow guidlines set out in the impact report .
Though there is another local one where the impact report was 90% wrong and the problems they envisioned actually turned to be benefits .

[Don Corleone]

Well, to be perfectly honest, the article doesn't make the desired supervisory level particularly clear, so I can't really say. Should ELF and every other fringe gorup have veto power over every public works project? On the other extreme, do we want to allow these government/corporate collaborations to go forward without enivormental impact studies? As with most things, the wise course remains somewhere in between.

I just hadn't heard anything about negative environmental impacts of wind farms. The only specific charge the article levels is cutting up birds which frankly, rings a little hollow with me.