Council of Britain and Ireland

[Zim]

The Council of Britain and Ireland is held in an undisclosed location in neutral France. Diplomats scurry to and fro within its hallowed halls. In the center is a large Council Chamber, where representatives of the 5 powers of Britain and Ireland can negotiate in public. In theory this is where representatives from the countries can publically debate issues important to the region, and work out alliances or issue proclamations. In reality they mostly bicker iwth eachother, and gloat over victories. Occassionally a Monarch actually graces the floor of the Council Chamber, to issue some proclamation, or even to harrass a foe.

IC thread for the Britannia hotseat game. Since posts by non-players of the game could cause problems within the hotseat game, I ask that only players post in here. If you would like to comment on in-game events IC, an ORG member has started a sort of IC discussion thread here. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...00#post1774200

[RoadKill]

Welsh Diplomat:

King of England,
We have laid seige to one of your bordering settlements. Here are your choices. Give us Cardiff south to us or we will assualt the walls immidiatly, and slaughter your men without mercy, we will exterminate every single one of them. You choice have been given King of England, obey it or perish.

[Zim]

The English representative jumps to his feet, face red. "How dare you! The Kingdom of England does not accept ultimatums from powers a tenth its size! Why, we'll...what?". He's interrupted by a messenger from England who immediately hands him a letter. The representative reads it, scowling but seeming to calm down. He takes a deep breath, "Well, it would appear that his Majesty wishes to show that he prefers peace with all of his neighbors. A diplomat will be sent as soon as the snows melt, and if you accept, he will sign a ceasefire and trade agreement in exchange for the ethnically Welsh town of Cardiff. However, he would prevail upon you to pursue your objectives more diplomatically in the future".

[Privateerkev]

The Scottish representative stands up.

First off, on behalf of my Lord, King Alexander of Scotland, I wish to thank you all for this chance to speak before this august body.

My King wishes to publicly affirm his feelings of loyalty and friendship towards his father-in-law, King Henry of England.

My King wishes to affirm his feelings of brotherhood towards his fellow Celtic people.

But my King wishes that the Celtic peoples of this land attempt to work things out peacefully.

Finally, my King wishes to state his intention to bring all "rebel" settlements that are peopled by a predominately Scottish population, under his rule as soon as is logistically feasible. He assumes no one will object to this. A large host of Scottish soldiers advances on the 2 western rebel settlements as we speak.

In a related manner, my King hopes him and the Norse can come to some sort of agreement regarding Scottish settlements under Norwegian control.

[RoadKill]

The English representative jumps to his feet, face red. "How dare you! The Kingdom of England does not accept ultimatums from powers a tenth its size! Why, we'll...what?". He's interrupted by a messenger from England who immediately hands him a letter. The representative reads it, scowling but seeming to calm down. He takes a deep breath, "Well, it would appear that his Majesty wishes to show that he prefers peace with all of his neighbors. A diplomat will be sent as soon as the snows melt, and if you accept, he will sign a ceasefire and trade agreement in exchange for the ethnically Welsh town of Cardiff. However, he would prevail upon you to pursue your objectives more diplomatically in the future".

King of Wales has great pride on such great chivalry. We are happy we have reached an agreement. My forces will immidatly withdraw once Cardiff is given to us. Once again we are pleased by your decision. I will gladly accept the ceasefire and trade aggrement

The Welsh diplomat stands and bows.

[Privateerkev]

The Scottish representative stands up

My good gentlemen,

My Lord, King Alexander wishes to state before this august body his territorial claims.

The rebel settlements to the west of Scotland, Inverlochly and Dunstaffnage, and the islands of Skye and Islay, are to be brought into the Scottish Kingdom as soon as it is feasible.

The Isle of Skye has a population that is 85% Scottish.

Dunstaffnage has a population that is 80% Scottish.

Inverlochly has a population that is 70% Scottish.

The Isle of Islay has a population that is 40% Scottish, 30% Irish, and 30% Norwegian. Since the Scottish make up the largest percentage of the population, it is only proper that they be ruled by Scotland.

These are the only territorial claims that Scotland is making at this time. While the Norwegian territories of Mull, Arran, and Wick have sizable Scottish minorities, King Alexander does recognize that they have Norwegian majorities.

As we speak, mighty Scottish armies are marching on Dunstaffnage and Inverlochly. And ships are sailing to meet with these armies and take them to the Isles of Skye and Islay when their campaigns in West Scotland are finished.

We trust that these claims will be respected and not interfered with. King Alexander appreciates your understanding on this matter.

[Zim]

The English representative stands

"It has come to our attention that a Welsh fort lies within English borders, not far from the English city their king has sieged. If we are to sign a peace deal and give you Cardiff, this fort will have to be abandoned. We cannot suffer it to remain on English soil. I would also like to announce that we hope that the Norwegian Prince and Scotland can work out the division of Northern settlements and islands between them peacefully."

He sits back down

[Cheetah]

The Norwegian representative stands up.

I do not understand a word the Scottish representative was talking about. The only numbers we count are the heads of enemies we cut off. Our diplomats are wearing helmet and shield, our diplomatic table is the battlefield, our pen is our sword and axe, and we write with the blooOOOOd of our enemies. *raising his voice*
KING HAAKON IS BACK. He is back to claim all the lands that rightfully belongs to him. Anyone who dares to oppose him will_pay_the_price.

The Norwegian representative walks out.

[phonicsmonkey]

The Irish representative stands up with a wry grin...

I see our friends from the North are acting with their customary restraint and good manners.

Let us hope their armour and stone walls are as dense as their skulls.


It is said that he claims our northern Irish cities were founded by the Norse, and uses this to mount a territorial claim - clearly he has a keener sense of humour than of history.

We men of Brega don't take kindly to childish threats - this Haakon is at best an unwelcome visitor to these islands and any aggression against our fair lands will be met with force.

Do not underestimate the men of Ireland, northern King

[Ozzman1O1]

Moderator edit: I understand this post was not part of the game, so it is put in spoiler tags and should be disregarded.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[I]norwegian representitive returns

Ahhhh.But it is you Irish hounds that seek nothing but carnage....your claims of that island that can still be described as hibernia when your women and daughters hide behind walls as thick as your bones will be once they are grinded into dust!!!We already have an army under a massive fleat that your small rowboats cant prevent postitiond on your south west coast,pay 50000 gold or a norwegian battle axe on your head will be the last thing you see....It was your own falt you didint even detect us saling by your borders....

[Zim]

The English representative stands to address the Council.

The English King would like it known that in light of the Norwegians' clear aggressiveness and apparrent unwillingness to negotiate peacefully, I consider any and all claims by them on the Irish cities currently under English control to be null and void. Furthermore, I would suggest to King Haakon that perhaps he take to diplomacy with a lighter touch, lest he make an enemy of all the countries of the Isles.

King Henry would also like it known that although at present he does not intend to get involved in any wars between foreign countries, but will not suffer any such country to intrude upon his own lands.

OOC: I checked, Ozzman didn't have permission to speak for Cheetah. Please disregard Ozzman's post. Repeat, Norway has only threatened Scotland directly. Everything has been taken care of.

[Privateerkev]

King Alexander walks into the hall. The young 17-year-old man nonetheless has a regal bearing. As his armor clanks and Scottish tabard flows, he comes to the middle of the room with a purpose.

Representatives of the other 4 Kingdoms in Brittania,

I have just received a letter from King Haakon declaring war on me. He claims I insulted him. Well, he insults us all by his dirty peoples' very presence on our clean lands.

All I have done is assert my right to rule over settlements with a Scottish majority population. But he said he had some sort of ancient claims to these lands just like he has claimed the same with Irish lands.

In a booming voice, King Alexander shouts,

Since when does a history of raping, murdering, pillaging, and plundering lie as a basis for territorial claims!!!!

Calming down, Alexander continues,

I have been more than patient with this man. His people sail from across the sea, settle in our lands, and then has the gall to tell me that he should rule over my people!?!

If I sailed a massive army over to Norway and camped outside of Oslo, he would be equally insulted. But he expects us to just take it!

I was nice enough to let him sit on ancient Scottish land that had a majority Norwegian population. Nevermind that those territories only have a majority Norwegian population because the vikings have been raping Scottish women!

If squatting on our lands is not enough for him, then I say he is not entitled to any of our land!

Make no mistake, these pirates are a threat to all of us. He has massive armies with almost no economy to support them. He will have to raid and plunder us just to pay his greedy soldiers.

King Henry of England will have to watch his coasts for raiding parties now that the Norwegians have proven to be hungry for florins. The Welsh will have to watch over their small Kingdom because the Norse might see it as a tempting and easy target. And the Irish have already discovered that the Norse desire lands in Ireland.

Since the threat to all of you has been made clear, I ask for your help in evicting these people from our land. Since the Scottish are closer to the bulk of Norway's territories, we will take the brunt of the fighting but we would welcome any assistance you could offer. All we would ask is for the majority of the spoils since most Norwegian territories have massive Scottish minorities.

The Isles of Islay and Man are negotiable since they do not have massive Scottish minorities. I believe the Isle of Man should go to the first person who gets there, unless a claim can be made. Otherwise, if I get there first, I will gift it to the Kingdom that aids me the most in this struggle. The Isle of Islay does have a large Scottish population but it also has a large Irish population. I would give up my claim to Islay and gift it to the Irish in exchange for their help in combating a foe that desires both of our lands.

If you can not give aid to me, then I ask that you not give aid and comfort to the enemy. Anyone who signs a trade deal or an alliance with the Norse will be seen as hostile to Scotland. We will not forget someone who aids rapists of Scottish women for a very long time.

I believe it is time for us to make the 5 Kingdoms of Brittania into 4. Four is much more stable. There is obviously not enough room for 5 so one needs to go. Since the Norse are little more than hostile and antagonistic pirates, we can do without their presence upon our lands.

May God help us wipe these thieves and murderers off of Brittania.

Thank you

King Alexander goes and sits in the Scottish section of the Council

[RoadKill]

A Welsh noble part of the welsh council enters the diplomatic chambers, with an extremly angered face.

Dear England,
We are angered, and we mean we are extremly angery. King Lewllyn is happy you have aggreed to the previous terms, but your following actions worry us. We are not fools dear england, we see your massive amounts of forces reaching our borders. We welsh take sever offense to this. Either your pull those forces away now or this war will reach a serious climax. It is obvious after giving us Cardiff you are prepared to retreive it back from us. We understand that you too worry about us leaving your borders un defended is plain stupidity. Which means you also do not trust us. Trust is necessary in an agreement, and we think we are missing this, even if trust means stupidity. So now heres your choice english. Releave our borders of such danger or get ready for total war.

[Privateerkev]

King Alexander, still waiting for some sort of official reply from the Norse, speaks up when he hears the Welsh representative.

Are the Welsh even capable of diplomacy? What King Henry has asked is entirely reasonable. Having your troops in a fort on his land causes devastation due to the "procurement" that would happen from the fort's garrison.

And it seems he would have gladly given up Cardiff but the Welsh were so impatient that they besieged it with King Henry's forces still inside. If what the Welsh desire, is peace and an independent and unified Wales, then it seems they are about to get it. Without bloodshed I might add.

But how can the Welsh expect King Henry to remain so reasonable and patient if they keep hurling insults in his general direction? You claim that there needs to be trust but your actions give others little reason to trust you.

Perhaps if you weren't so rash...

[Zim]

The English representative stands up, looking oddly happy, as if pleased with what he would finally be allowed to say:

Sir, I am rather surprised you have the gall to say such a thing. It was you you marched your soldiers into my territory. It was you who threatened to slaughter innocent peasants unless your demands were met. England has only behaved as reasonably as can be expected. We not only have a diplomat under way to your cities, but the King's very own youngest daughter en route.

We send men to guard our border because you seem to us unstable and violent. They have not penetrated your boundaries, as your soldiers have ours. We desire peace and are only too happy to strike a deal to preserve the people of the town you so rudely threaten. We will even offer guarantees or a treaty of nonaggression. However, we will not draw back defensive forces. If you are too unreasonable to allow this, then let the council be aware that it was Welsh aggression that started this war, not English.

[Privateerkev]

King Alexander speaks,

It is duly noted by the Scottish Kingdom that the Welsh have been unduly aggressive towards the English.

We urge our fellow Celtic brethren to think carefully before starting a costly and bloody war.

[phonicsmonkey]

The Irish representative stands rather unsteadily with a flamboyant bow to the Welsh. He is red of cheek and looks to have lunched well....

Sirs, The Irish would also counsel caution in this matter.

Mighty are the armies of the Cymryr and deep run their grievances with the Kings of England, whether Norman or Saxon, but in the words of the Welsh bard Taliesin, Swift the remorse of defending too long.

The English King has shown himself willing to negotiate - why risk all-out war?

Troubling as it must be to have English troops stationed near the borders, does not the bard also warn,

The men of the South will defend their taxes,
With sharp-ground blades utterly they will kill.
There will be no advantage to the physician from what they do.

There can be no advantage to the Britons from internicine war and bloodshed, which will serve only to encourage those who watch our lands with covetous eyes from their longboats...

With a final stern and portentous look at the Welsh diplomat, he sits down heavily and drains his tankerd..

[RoadKill]

The welsh diplomat exhales quickly and speaks

King Lewllyn is a noble and chivalrious man, he does not seek war. Do you think he is an idiot, we are mearly one tenth of the British forces. We couldn't have possible required Cardiff through force, and if we have done that we would have been crushed in the matter of years. They only way was to threat. We besiged because it was the only way our people could obtain our border. We did not besiege because we seek war.

Even though that is our intention, I think the English seek other causes. We were suprised the English king even accpeted these horrindus terms. But we accepted with great happiness and gratituge that they have agreed. But only momentarily accepting those terms did he bring thousands of men to the border. Thousands of men he does not need to defend against us, need us remind you, only merly one-tenth of his force. We were angered by that fact, it seemed to us that his intentions were not to defend, but to attack. Something we will not stand by to watch.

[Zim]

The English representative stands again.

I think you exagerate, sir. Of the defensive armies approaching the border, only one comes close to matching the one you sent across ours. I doubt they would be able to hold back all of your military might. They will just man the forts on what will be our new border. This is non-negotiable. England would prefer not to go to war, but we will not let our National dignity be embarrassed by someone who resorts to blackmail and the threatened slaughter of innocents to achieve his goals. After your men go back behind the border to your own lands, we can negotiate about the size of defensive armies on our border.

[RoadKill]

The Welsh diplomat glares into the eyes of the english diplomat and speaks with a low deadly tone

[I]Exterminate your population...You must be a fool. Half that population of yours in the borders are brave Welsh men that are forced to be labured under your rule. Why would a chivalrious king such as King Lewllyn threaten to kill his own people.These settlements belong to Wales, and we tolerate nothing else!!! You think us Welsh will stand here as you talk to us like scum! This deal is over! We want nothing to deal with you! We may be weak but the bravery of our men shall make forth of it. We will free these Welsh from your grasp, even if it will costs hundreds of lives. And it is the will that will come forth! We have chosen our path. [I]

[Zim]

The English representative meets his glare with one of his own.

I believe it was you who said, and I quote, "Give us Cardiff south to us or we will assualt the walls immidiatly, and slaughter your men without mercy, we will exterminate every single one of them. You choice have been given King of England, obey it or perish ". I begin to wonder if you understand the meaning of the word peace, or negotiation. If you wish a war with England, you will have one. we will not be bullied by bandits and pirates.

[RoadKill]

The Welsh Diplomat quickly responds with an evil grin

Yes, we clearly know what we have said, and we said slaughter every one of them, referring to them, as in the english, as I have previously stated, Many Welsh men live in your settlement, and we will not shed blood from our own kind. Bandits and pirates you say...Then bandits and pirates we shall be. We will be sure to give your english troops a warm welcome.

The Welsh diplomat picks up his documents and leaves the room whistling down the hall

OOC: Dang, I love being the bad guy.

[RoadKill]

Before The welsh diplomat leaves the door he leaves a not on the table. It reads

We are not stupid England. We knew the moment you accepted our terms you are up to something. We see your troops arriving from sea, from dublin. The moment you aggreed to give us Cardiff was the moment you would have assualted us. And do not try to pretend it was us. You wanted a cease fire but yet you sent troops from behind me to assault me, that is the way a coward fights. Dear Kings of these Isles, do you really trust your English friend now, friends that have agreed to have non-violent terms but smack you on the back of your head when your're not looking. You will see kings of the Isles, if you do not fight back now, the English will demolish you, end your lives with trickery and cowardious.?

[Zim]

The English representative stands

Are you insane? You threaten us, and when we comply with your demands you accuse us of treachery and exterminate our people. Not a single English soldier has left Ireland. If you could stop making threats long enough to check, you might notice that all English ships between Ireland and and Britain are completely empty. Our western fleet is patroling the waters between the Isles to prevent treachery from greedy, murderous bandits such as yourselves.

I want the council to note that the Welsh have threatened and insulted England while she sought only peace, then accuse us of treachery after backing away from their own agreed upon terms, quite generous for them I might add, and slaughtering the innocent people of an English village! We will not stand for this. England officially declares war on Wales.

[phonicsmonkey]

As representative of Ireland I condemn any acts of violence against the civilian populations of any of our lands.

Are these reports of a slaughter true?

[RoadKill]

It seems that another more friednly Welsh diplomat has replaced the angered one that stormed out of the room

King Lewllyn is not a man of slaughter. He would even hesitate to kill his most hated enemies. He is a kind and gentle man. But also a man who has great virtue if doing anything to aid his people. to answer your question Irish noble, it was a threat. A threat a man like King Lewllyn could not accomplish. Many men of that settlement were of Welsh background, and we would never shed blood against our own kind. It was mearly a threat that has gone too far. But if the English decide that is there wish, then all we have to say, is bring your horses and men, but God will decide who the rightous king od Britain shall be.

[Zim]

The English representative stands

If King Lewllyn really did not follow through on his threat, and really seeks peace, then the deal before agreed on can still take place. Cardiff will be given to the Welsh, and the Welsh will abandon their fort on English soil and their siege of the English town. If, however, this is another ruse, then may God have mercy on King Lewllyn, because King Henry surely will not.

[Privateerkev]

King Alexander has just been sitting at the Scottish table with his fingers on his temple. It is clear that just witnessing the proceedings is giving him a headache.

Can someone tell me what the bloody hell is going on!?!

Who is warring with who? Who exterminated who's city? Who is sailing towards who?

Does anyone know? I just got a report from one of my diplomats that Ulster isn't even owned by anyone! Are the English even in Ireland? Is anyone anywhere? Are we anywhere at all? Are we... we!?!

Arrrrgggg!!!

This spat is driving me mad!

Do the Welsh even know what it is that they are actually saying!?!

Let me try to piece this out...

1.) King Henry offered Cardiff to the Welsh in exchange for peace.

2.) King Llewelyn besieged Cardiff instead and threatened Henry. He said he would exterminate Cardiff unless Henry gave him Cardiff.

3.) Henry re-agreed to give Cardiff if Llewelyn un-sieged Cardiff and let Henry's men out. Then Henry saw that the Welsh had taken a fort on English soil. Removal of Welsh troops from that fort became part of the deal.

4.) Llewelyn then says none of this is good enough. Now, English troops are not allowed to be on English soil.

5.) In the meantime, did the Welsh actually ever un-siege Cardiff? Did Henry ever get the chance to pull his men out of the city?

6.) Then there was talk that may be loosley interpretted as describing the extermination of Cardiff. Did that mean the Welsh took the city? When they did, did they exterminate it?

7.) Now there is talk that the Welsh did not exterminate the city.

8.) Now there is talk from the Welsh that the English are here, there, and everywhere.

9.) Now the English have declared war on Wales... BUT THEY WERE ALREADY AT WAR WITH WALES!!!! The Irish too if I might add.

So, looking at these 9 points, I can only conclude that NO ONE KNOWS JUST WHAT THE !@#$% IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!!

This is simple. Can someone just answer me some simple questions?

Is Cardiff English right now. yes or no?

Is Cardiff under siege right now. yes or no?

If Cardiff is Welsh, was it exterminated. yes or no?

Is King Alexander going bat!@#$ just listening to this diplo-mumbo-jumbo?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes he !@#$ing is!

I can see why no other King bothers to !@#$ing come here!

Because they want to keep their God-!@#$ sanity!

Someone write down the answers to those !@#$ing questions and send them to me. I'm going back to Perth where the world makes a lick of sense. I've waited personally for King Haakon's response long enough. If he wants to get word to me, he can write me a God-!@#$ !@#$ing letter!

King Alexander walks out. His diplomats at the Scottish table just look wide-eyed in surprise.

[phonicsmonkey]

The Irish representative bursts into laughter and stands..

Well said sir!

I second that request for clarification - it would help greatly to know what the Devil is actually going on!

I would make one minor clarificatory point of my own however - Ulster is now, has forever been, and will forever be IRISH, regardless of whose flag flies over Derry.

And let no man doubt it.

[Zim]

King Henry walks into the room just after Alexander leaves, looking slightly amused. He walks up to the Scottish table and tells them to start writing down his words. Confused, they stare at eachother, only to furiously start scribbling when King Henry yells at them to pick up their pens

I can easily understand why my Scottish counterpart is confused. While I cannot say whether even the Welsh representatives could decipher their contradictory declarations, I might be able to clear a few things up.

The Welsh did not siege Cardiff, otherwise I could just disband my men and let them have it. Instead, they crossed the English border and sieged an English town.

The Welsh did not receive my offer of Cardiff until after the siege, I had discussed it with the other Celtic Kings, but King Llewelyn acted before I could send them the offer.

We accepted a deal with them to avoid extermination of my town, including a stipulation that the Welsh abandon a fort on my soil they had taken. The Welsh had an issue with my moving some men toward the border to act as guarantors and a defensive force on the border. Only one of these three groups was of decent size, and it was no larger than the Welsh army that had come into my lands to threaten me.

The Welsh did not like this, and decided to withdraw the deal. After insulting us, they responded in kind and declared they'd exterminated my town after apparently hearing some rumor of my Irish army going after them, despite the fact that any ships anywhere near the Welsh border contain no troops and my Irish army is still in Ireland.

Sometime later, the Welsh replaced their representative and backpedaled on their earlier words, that is where we are now. I am still waiting to see if a peace can be obtained otherwise, but I must hear before the next campaigning season, otherwise it would seem that the King of Wales is stalling. Cardiff is in English hands, but I have a diplomat going to meet with the Welsh and offer its exchange for a ceasefire.

As for Derry, Ulster rebelled from English control. Dublin and Trim are still firmly in English hands, and the western English controlled settlement has not rebelled.

Having had his say, King Henry walks back to the English section and sits down in the throne reserved for his visits.