I'm sure you all remember the Virginia Tech shooting that left 32 students and staff dead last spring. Well, two Penn State students dressed up as VT victims for Halloween.
It started with a picture on Facebook and has now created a firestorm of outrage.
Two Penn State students, dressed as Virginia Tech shooting victims, at a Halloween party have enraged people from the Virginia Tech community, as well as the entire country.
10 On Your Side has seen all of the controversial pictures. They are of two Penn State students and are extremely graphic. Both are wearing Virginia Tech t-shirts and elaborate make-up. Both have bullet holes in their bodies.
Our decision not to show you the pictures is a result of our desire to be sensitive to a community that is still grieving. We also want to show respect to the shooting victims, their families, and their friends. Showing these pictures would serve no purpose.
We talked with one of the students who wore the costume. He said the outfits were worn to a small party and meant to be private.
"It's not that it was funny, it's that we are notorious and infamous in the state college, so we have to do things that push the envelope just for shock value," he said.
Penn State officials were quick to respond to the costumes.
"We are appalled that these individuals would display this level of insensitivity, indifference, and lack of common decency and sense by dressing up in this manner," the school said.
"The fact that one of these individuals is actually from Virginia, makes it even more difficult to understand. Just because something is within the bounds of the Constitution and free speech, does not mean it should be undertaken. We certainly condemn these ugly and senseless actions. Most Penn Staters are as offended by this as anyone from Virginia Tech would be-- and rightfully so. These two people do not represent 90,000 Penn State students. They represent themselves."
After seeing the pictures, a Virginia Tech student created a Facebook group called, "People Against This Costume." Some of the upset members have left threatening messages to the Penn State students.
"This is a group of college students who now think it's trendy to be upset about their friends being killed," one of the two Penn State students who wore the costume said. "I don't know what they teach people in Virginia Tech, but at Penn State we don't learn to threaten people with murder to teach them that murdering is wrong."
He goes on to defend the pictures.
"The thing is, everybody's making a big stink about Virginia Tech. Virginia Tech was 32 deaths out of the 26 thousand that happen in America everyday," he said. "That's the problem with college students. They all live in an ivory tower of privilege. They don't understand, when it all boils down to it, it's someone wearing a costume."
Reaction from Tech students and Blacksburg residents was disgust.
"That somebody would have the nerve to mock [the victims]. They were really good people," said local business owner, Carol Gwin.
Gwin knew three of the victims in the shootings and considered them cherished friends.
The Images (WARNING: OFFENSIVE!):
What scumbags.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Normally I'm all for harsh, painful humor (it's the best kind). However, what these kids did wasn't clever, wasn't subtle, wasn't funny, wasn't imaginative, and wasn't tasteful.
Normally I'm all for harsh, painful humor (it's the best kind). However, what these kids did wasn't clever, wasn't subtle, wasn't funny, wasn't imaginative, and wasn't tasteful.
Normally I'm all for harsh, painful humor (it's the best kind).
However, what these kids did wasn't clever, wasn't subtle, wasn't funny, wasn't imaginative, and wasn't tasteful.
That looks very much like a contradiction.
(Subtlety doesn't really much have to be a part of 'harsh, painful humor', does it? And factually it was slightly imaginative, even reasonably creative, and to them it was tasteful as in taste is entirely subjective. They were also clever in getting attention with it.)
Shame on them.
Looks like some kind of hypocrisy.
I'm sorry, but I'm just saying what it looks like to me. If incorrect, apologies. Personally I would not approve of their conduct, but I wouldn't approve of any other conduct of similar "dark painful nature" in different "supposedly more acceptable" contexts, because they can be very nasty too.
Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
Emotion: you have it or it has you.
What would you think if I weared a T-shirt with the Dingeman kid with it's throat cut in a public school? Would you see it as poetic liberty or just extremily bad taste? This actually happened to these people, can't understand how that is hypocracy of any kind. This is so incredibly insensitive and stupid, and most likely more stupid then insensative but insensative nonetheless.
Well, as said I don't approve of their actions either so you don't have to address that or me about these kinds of situations, Frag. It is not about what I would think if [some situation] would occur.
The point made was more about the Lemur (or anyone else where applicable) "appearing hypocrite" to me. Those two first quotes especially. If you say you approve harsh painful humour "because it is the best kind" (according to whomever), but you then disapprove this particular one... heh, looks like hypocrisy to me. If it is not, then what is it? You tell me, 'cause I would like to know
In any case, there seems to be a contradiction in his words which has been pointed out. You are free to counterargument (which hasn't happened yet as far as I can see at the moment).
Of course, Lemur, you understand there is no harm intended. *shoves a 5-dollar bill into your pocket*
Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
Emotion: you have it or it has you.
Well, as said I don't approve of their actions either so you don't have to address that or me about these kinds of situations, Frag. It is not about what I would think if [some situation] would occur.
Indeed it isn't, that's my point. This happened to these people. Take the worst thing that happened to someone and use it for a look-at-me-being-naughty kinda laugh, that's not classy that is incredibly selfish and insensitive.
when a US writer uses the words "but" or "however", he is saying: 'all that went before 'but' or 'however' should be set aside; the following is what I think.' This enables the writer to hold 2 seemingly contradictory ideas at the same time. The reader is obliged to give some weight to the first part (but then set it aside, on viewing "however"), and then assign more weight to the 2nd part.
Not hypocrisy. Rather: common american english construction.
Sounds like the chap who dressed up as de Menezes at a party I went to. Perhaps I just associate with the wrong sort of people... we just found it funny. Then again, it was a couple of months past the event by then.
Distasteful? Perhaps - I certainly wouldn't dress up like that (but then, I like costumes that don't require makeup and funny looks on the street). But to be honest, I also don't like people that get worked up about that sort of thing. I have no time for sanctimonious prigs.
*edit*
In addition, re-reading the article, it states something along the lines that they aren't representive of typical students at their university. Well, if my university is anything to go on, a typical student is a boring git...
Last edited by Somebody Else; 12-08-2007 at 21:59.
Don't have any aspirations - they're doomed to fail.
I think that while it is somewhat distasteful, it was a small, private party. It reminds me of my cousin, who went as John Kennedy, but with his head splattered with brains and blood. Thirty years ago that was disgusting, now it's different.
What people do on their own time is not my business. I don't think there would be any complaints if they girl wore a tight-tight skirt and small shirt.
"Nietzsche is dead" - God
"I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96
Re: Pursuit of happiness
Have you just been dumped?
I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.
But to be honest, I also don't like people that get worked up about that sort of thing. I have no time for sanctimonious prigs.
Just a word of advice. That reads perilously close to an unmerited attack on some posters in this thread. Just because someone feels strongly that such dark "humour" might prove offensive, doesn't make them a sanctimonious prig. It might, for example, make them a friend or relative of the deceased.
I feel sure you didn't mean it quite that way.
"If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one." Albert Camus "Noces"
it states something along the lines that they aren't representive of typical students at their university.
I love those throw away comments that the media makes.
Individuals never are representative of the group... unless they are winning Pulitzers, Nobels, Olympic Medals... then they are whole heartdely part of the group.
When Russel Crowe was getting into his first fights he was 'the lowlife New Zealander' according to the Australian Press. Later on that year when he won the Oscar he was 'Wonderful Aussie Actor wins Oscar' according to the same press.
I take it as a sign of maturity and responsibility when we accept the wrongs of our groups as readily as the rights. Its only through acceptance that we will then take action.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Pape for global overlord!!
Originally Posted by English assassin
Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.
I lol'd. Not at the costumes, i found them bland and unimaginative (i can think of many ways to make them more offensive and funny) but at the reaction to this. If all these bleeding hearts would bother getting shocked at things that actually affect the world rather than some kids in costumes, imagine how they could change the world for the better, rather than blithering about it in the press.
Originally Posted by Ranika
I'm being assailed by a mental midget of ironically epic proportions. Quick as frozen molasses, this one. Sharp as a melted marble. It's disturbing. I've had conversations with a braying mule with more coherence.
Well, if these costumes were only worn to private parties, I take it all back. What idiocies kids want to get up to in private are their own business. Heck, they can dress up like Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS for all I care. Somehow I got the impression they wore these outfits in public, at some sort of event.
I've been reflecting upon some of the comments made and I think I'm changing my mind on this subject.
Where this took a wrong turn was posting pictures publically on the internet. Had this been truly private, there is little to be concerned about aside from matters of taste. However, when some small private joke on one side of the world can suddenly be thrust upon the rest of the world and into the laps of those directly affected by the exercise in "humour", it becomes tasteless.
Perhaps the real fault here is our tendency in this internet society to share everything with those on in our address books and forum buddies - including the really bad stuff. "Oh everybody, look how tasteless this is - pass it on!" There are very few emails I receive that I feel worthy of passing on to others I know, but some friends and relatives of mine feel obligated to forward on every bit of email crap that hits their inbox.
I think we as a society need to become more aware of public nature of the internet and communication in general (cell phones anyone?) and take necessary steps to insure that the private stays private. Things such as private, passworded online photo albums can help mantain some level of privacy.
This joke they did is probably tasteless, and some people might take offend and be rather justified. Or they might not, since this is apparently a private party. I myself don't care except for one serious, serious objection:
If you're going to be offensive, be funny!
Quality excuses everything. Lack of quality -- well, you just gave me all the rights in the world to say the worst things about your intelligence and upbringing.
Where this took a wrong turn was posting pictures publically on the internet. Had this been truly private, there is little to be concerned about aside from matters of taste. However, when some small private joke on one side of the world can suddenly be thrust upon the rest of the world and into the laps of those directly affected by the exercise in "humour", it becomes tasteless.
<-- What he said. I couldn't care less about such jokes in private. Where it crosses the line is the publication of photos. There's a very good reason various student parties and initiations tend to have a no-photo policy.
"The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr
when a US writer uses the words "but" or "however", he is saying: 'all that went before 'but' or 'however' should be set aside; the following is what I think.' This enables the writer to hold 2 seemingly contradictory ideas at the same time. The reader is obliged to give some weight to the first part (but then set it aside, on viewing "however"), and then assign more weight to the 2nd part.
Not hypocrisy. Rather: common american english construction.
I see what you are trying to get at. Still it would seem my argument has not been invalidated. Perhaps it has even been fortified. What you say appears a bit like a repetition of what I meant only put more eloquently and diplomatically.
It's as if one puts weight on the first point (and advocates it), yet he or she would then set it aside to accept the other point (to oppose the first one that is so admired). Common American English usage? Yes or maybe. It still looks hypocrisy to me for the contradiction remains intact. One would still enjoy harsh painful humour afterwards.
Regarding the rest (more or less) -- what came after 'however' -- it seems entirely subjective. What they did was "harsh painful humor" and it can indeed be 'clever, subtle, funny, imaginative, or tasteful' (or some combination) if one would perceive it as such.
I'm sorry: I'm a critical *******
Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
Emotion: you have it or it has you.
English has many exceptions to the rule. Lemur was stating one of his.
For instance:
I'm a bigot of bigots, but not a bigot of bigots of bigots.
Figure that one out at your leisure.
A hypocrite would be going to Halloween parties as an KKK member and then saying what the Penn State students did was wrong. Hypocrisy assumes that you tell others not to do on moral grounds what you then do as well. I wouldn't call a expert in a field telling newbies not to do something he does without proper training a hypocrite... although in a literal interpretation would have you end there.
Last edited by Papewaio; 12-10-2007 at 00:36.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Pape for global overlord!!
Originally Posted by English assassin
Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.
What a Terrible Lack of Judgement
Reply With Quote
(I'm a Penn State alum)
Originally Posted by Lemur
Re: What a Terrible Lack of Judgement
Re: What a Terrible Lack of Judgement
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