Really unlogical tech tree and AI

[Abokasee]

When I say unlogical, its because of something like this:

Castle: Woohoo I can get Druzhinas!!! but whats this I cant dismount them? isnt this simply a act of get your backside of a 4 legged mammel name a horse?
Mustering Hall: No its not, you have to upgrade me to the top level
Castle: Ummm, why? do you have some superb device able to dismount my men at a rate of 10 men a second?
Mustering Hall: Maybe...
Castle: WTF!?!?!?!?!?!!? W0OT IS THIS MADNESS!??
Mustering Hall: Madness? this is MTW2!!!!!!, all the other factions have to do this, like are neighbour, Poland
Polish Castle: Hey look at me! I can spam with my Barracks Dismounted noble AND mounted ones!
Castle: Arghh...
Polish Castle: Im gonna declare war on you, just too show how many Of these little ******** I have, and then can replace the next turn

*114 turn war*

Castle: Jesus christ that was alot of Polish nobles,
Barracks: Yeah, surely they cant just suddenly turn peasents into Nobles that quick
Castle: Yeah its suprising how many russian Vikings live in russia, especially smolesnk (Off topic, theres a point, what happend to Vikings for russia, they were in for MTW)
Barracks: Well now im at top level, and so is the Army barracks in novogrod and moscow, but not kiev because the poles kept massacring the population, and we kept sacking it to get enough money to make more good troops, which brought the population to about... 751,
Army Barracks: Hey since we got these barracks, lets go steam roll hungary
Castle: Why not?
----

My point is, its quite easy too tell a man to get off his horse and fight on foot, especially if your king, also the AI has no sense of intelligence, and wont cancle its moves once orderd (like russia taking kiev, then besieged by a small hungarian army)

[ReiseReise]

Madness?! THIS IS M2TW!!!


Somehow it doesn't roll off the tongue the same way...

It doesn't make sense according to their names, but it is all about unit balance. Dismounted Polish Nobles are Polands version of Armoured Spearmen. Dismounted Druzhina are Russias more elite infantry, facing them against one another would be ugly for the Nobles, so for balance you can't recruit them from the same level building. If you were able to actually dismount your troops for battle it would get confusing because mounted Polish Nobles are superior to Druzhina, but the opposite is true for the Dismounted versions. The whole unit system would have to be reworked for cost/buildings.
Basically it is just the names that are confusing with all the dismounted crap, instead of thinking about the names, think about the roles the units are supposed to fill.

PS Druzhina are the 'Vikings'

[alpaca]

Not really. Your average horsed noble in full plate armour would probably tell you to shove your order where the sun don't shine
So you need good barracks to have enough foot troops per noble to "convince" them convincingly enough to get off their horse

[doorknobdeity]

That makes sense, I suppose. One surprising thing I've learned is that, over a huge area and time period, cavalrymen have been universally better-paid and better-respected than your average groundpounding chump. The dismounted troops would likely be those who are too poor to afford/replace a decent warhorse, or something similar.

[entwo]

Yeah reise is right dismounted polish nobles are only crappy spearmen(last time i checked no "bonus vs cavalry" trait). The thing i hate more then that though is the fact that dismounted boyar sons and dismounted druzhinas are EXACTLY the same but for some reason are too seperate things id rather have a larger unit pool for one or the other. A note on the mounted/dismounted fighting on horseback is alot different to fighting on foot(i imagine) so someone well versed in fighting on horseback would probably only fight on foot if their horse were incapacitated or killed. Wouldn't it be an interesting feature if a cavalry unit could fight on if say their horse was killed not them?

[Redz " Preatorian Knights"]

ha ha he he he.... dis is exactly y i always wanted 2 visit a forum, i just luv 2 read them wen they say it wid FILLS!!-etc. wohoho... wtf?...love ur post anyway(abokase..?) nd 2 all... thats all make sense..

[ReiseReise]

wtf?

[Jason X]

thats all make sense..

innit

[Rhyfelwyr]

Preatorian, are you trying to rival the great Aboxix? (see my sig)

It is strange how barracks are required just to dismount the noble units though. I think it may be to focus eastern factions like Poland and Russia towards cavalry armies, whearas factions like Scotland and Sicily get dismounted nobles just from the castle buildings. Makes the stable line of buildings pretty pointless for some factions.

[ReiseReise]

Hijack. Caledonian's sig links to THE funniest thread I have ever read, and in the top 5 funniest thing I have ever read anywhere. I could still breathe while laughing, but I did have a few tears well up, so I give it an 8 out of 10. It is all over the place - zippers, cheese and poutine, and possibly the greatest insult of all time, all on the first page.

[Jason X]

for me, the greatest insult of all time is "yo momma is so dry that even the crabs wear desert boots"

[sapi]

Hijack. Caledonian's sig links to THE funniest thread I have ever read, and in the top 5 funniest thing I have ever read anywhere. I could still breathe while laughing, but I did have a few tears well up, so I give it an 8 out of 10. It is all over the place - zippers, cheese and poutine, and possibly the greatest insult of all time, all on the first page.

*goes to delete post, accidentally clicks link, is too busy laughing to do anything

But now now folks, back on topic

[Old Geezer]

Nobles don't dismount - ever - unless they're from the mountains and distrust horses like the Scots. (Actually we are too cheap to buy and feed them. We'd rather feed our peasants because we are so noble. It's hard enough just to find a staight stick over 10 feet long in the highland. That's why most of us left, twas to find sticks to whack the English with.)

[Rhyfelwyr]

From what I hear the English, at least just after the Norman Conquest, were pretty keen to dismount and formed a sort of shieldwall/phalanx with their lances.

At that point in time knights were not existent in Scotland. The dominant force were the Gaels who preferred to fight on foot or on little ponies, thier vassalls in the lowlands weren't even allowed to recruit their own troops. So there were no knights to dismount.