Tips

[Long lost Caesar]

Gaul. A land of rolling hills, strong rivers...and Aedui. God I hate them. I have at least 4 legions (army with 15 units) in Gaul, but the experienced Gaesaetae are always a problem for me. Gallic armies with a few of these hard asses in em i can take. Its just when seven supported by Solduros come at me i begin to wet myself. How would you guys tackle this situation? Keeping in mind I outfit European legions with

-1 General
-2 Brihentin Cav
-2 Sortaroas (sp.)
-2 triarii
-4 neitos
-4 principes

Any tips would be great, as I need to know if there's a better method to kill these crazy nudists. Once I've won the war ill introduce Gaul to clothes. "This is a toga, these are sandals..."

[Intranetusa]

Send in full stacks (20 units) after full stacks at them and wipe them out. Problem solved.

This is how I conquered the uber 6-chevroned rebels north of the Alps - I sent in wave after wave of my endless Roman hordes and overwhelmed them.

:D

[konny]

Gaul. A land of rolling hills, strong rivers...and Aedui. God I hate them. I have at least 4 legions (army with 15 units) in Gaul, but the experienced Gaesaetae are always a problem for me. Gallic armies with a few of these hard asses in em i can take. Its just when seven supported by Solduros come at me i begin to wet myself. How would you guys tackle this situation?

The only sollution I found in my last Sweboz campaign was to reduce their hitpoints to 1. The Celts are simply unbeatable when Gaesatae are spammed like that. I was sometimes facing two armies at a time (for example in sieges) in which the Nudists were the core unit with a minimum of 6 units.

[Redmeth]

Like I said before their AOR was tweaked a bit to be the provinces where the Gaesatae tribe came from, only one starting province for each of the Aedui and Arvernii will have access and those are pretty disputed territories there...

The Celtic Elites will be another thing that we'll be able to represent much better in M2 engine so we won't have to do things to "hide" the units from the AI or tell people to use self-restraint so they won't be spammed.

[Intranetusa]

The only sollution I found in my last Sweboz campaign was to reduce their hitpoints to 1. The Celts are simply unbeatable when Gaesatae are spammed like that. I was sometimes facing two armies at a time (for example in sieges) in which the Nudists were the core unit with a minimum of 6 units.

If you have a good economy, fighting Gaesatae isn't a problem. I defeated a 1 full stack Adeui army composed of regular troops + another 1/2 stack of Gaesatae with 1 full stack of Polybian Hastatis, Principes, and Triari and another 1 full stack of entirely Camillan era Triaris (Triari-hoplite FTW!).

2 full stacks of Polybian Army + Camillain Triaris vs 1 full stack of Adeui + 1/2 stack of Gaesatae

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

Gaul. A land of rolling hills, strong rivers...and Aedui. God I hate them. I have at least 4 legions (army with 15 units) in Gaul, but the experienced Gaesaetae are always a problem for me. Gallic armies with a few of these hard asses in em i can take. Its just when seven supported by Solduros come at me i begin to wet myself. How would you guys tackle this situation? Keeping in mind I outfit European legions with

-1 General
-2 Brihentin Cav
-2 Sortaroas (sp.)
-2 triarii
-4 neitos
-4 principes

Any tips would be great, as I need to know if there's a better method to kill these crazy nudists. Once I've won the war ill introduce Gaul to clothes. "This is a toga, these are sandals..."

Lots of missiles...lots and lots of missiles...if it comes to it, one or two units of some kind of artillery does wonders for you, but decent archers or lots of sacrificial skirmishers are the best things.

[konny]

If you have a good economy, fighting Gaesatae isn't a problem. I defeated a 1 full stack Adeui army composed of regular troops + another 1/2 stack of Gaesatae with 1 full stack of Polybian Hastatis, Principes, and Triari and another 1 full stack of entirely Camillan era Triaris (Triari-hoplite FTW!).

The Romans are the only one who can beat them because of the AP pila, even slingers do not own them so fast like simple Hastati do. It is nevertheless important that you outnumber those people: in a perfect fight, and I had this twice, three units of Hastati will rout one unit of Gaesatae without even drawing swords, by the salvos of the 960 AP javelins.

My Sweboz didn't throw pila but crappy sticks, slingers are not to be have and about archers the Gaesatae simply laugh, so I had to sent two FM against every unit of them while the rest of the army had to keep the other Gaesatae in check and fight down who ever else is there. That works fine up to three units of Nakeds, but with 6 it's going to be a close run thing, and 10 of them will certainly be a crushing defeat with half of the family tree dead.

[Reno Melitensis]

I faught a series of battles against the Aedui circa 240 bce. I won Mediolanum, Segesta, and had to defend Massilia against them until finally, after 5 years of war they accepted peace, and to this day, 184 bce, there have been peace.

The trick, two legions commanded by your most able commanders. The legions, 5 maniples of Hastati, 5 maniples of Principes, 3 of Triari, 3 or 4 Velies deployed between the maniples of Hastati, one Accensi. The two empty slots should be filled with cavalry, number one choise, Extraordinari. if not available take characters, the Consular cavalry are good. Do not worry about the naked fanatics, use your cavalry as a hammer , and keep the Triari as a reserve, and deploy them to critical spots in your battle line.

Cheers.

[Intranetusa]

The Romans are the only one who can beat them because of the AP pila, even slingers do not own them so fast like simple Hastati do.

AP pilla? Wow I didn't realize the hastatis & principes had the AP stats in their pilla throwing.

[Long lost Caesar]

I actually didn't. Pila do jack sh*t on a gaesaetae charge, they just keep coming. Are slingers best used against these madmen? Apparently they're better against armour than bowmen, but i don't know myself. Cheers

[Intranetusa]

I actually didn't. Pila do jack sh*t on a gaesaetae charge, they just keep coming. Are slingers best used against these madmen? Apparently they're better against armour than bowmen, but i don't know myself. Cheers

IMO, I think the best strategy against naked crazies is "sutround and pound."

(Distract them in melee, get behind them, throw 2 volleys of pilla into their backs, and charge & surround them. )

[Watchman]

Gaesatae armour value isn't so high that the AP attribute as such would make great difference (5), but as you're not going to find much in the way of good archers in the West slingers (whose missile attack tends to rival or exceed the archers' there, nevermind now with the AP effect thrown in) and javelins are your best bet.

Incidentally, the very high attack value of those German throwing-spears ought to make them pretty good for nailing most Celtic infantry. Simple math really; the mail-clad guys aside around the highest armour you're going to find in Gaul is around 5 (plus shield, but that isn't affected by AP). About half of that off with AP is 2-3 - and Roman pila and Iberian solifera don't have terribly high base attack values, 4-5 in most cases, and the slingers even lower. The German frameas tend to have something like 8 though; they ought to perform about as equally against the lightly armoured types, get past shield scores better, and ought to be right murder to unarmoured troops.

[konny]

The German frameas tend to have something like 8 though; they ought to perform about as equally against the lightly armoured types, get past shield scores better, and ought to be right murder to unarmoured troops.

From my experince I would say, they don't. I find there is a clear difference from a salvo of pila hitting a unit of Gaesatae from the front and a salvo of frameas doing the same. I do not know how the engine really calulates the AP bonus but it seems to be more than just 5:2 = 2.5 = 3. May be it is rounded down to 2?

[gurakshun]

Gaul. A land of rolling hills, strong rivers...and Aedui. God I hate them. I have at least 4 legions (army with 15 units) in Gaul, but the experienced Gaesaetae are always a problem for me. Gallic armies with a few of these hard asses in em i can take. Its just when seven supported by Solduros come at me i begin to wet myself. How would you guys tackle this situation? Keeping in mind I outfit European legions with

-1 General
-2 Brihentin Cav
-2 Sortaroas (sp.)
-2 triarii
-4 neitos
-4 principes

Any tips would be great, as I need to know if there's a better method to kill these crazy nudists. Once I've won the war ill introduce Gaul to clothes. "This is a toga, these are sandals..."

Helvetii/Alpine Phalanxes backed up by your LARGE, LARGE contingent of missile troops (the best you can get...probably will end up being Iosatae for the Romani), and a good 2-3 cavalry ALONG with your FM to surgically break individual units of pinned gaesatae(that are under fire by your missles while struggling to get past the phalanx spears) in a concentrated charge.

Romans were known for their ingenuity and willingness to learn and use new tactics, so don't feel the phalanx usage is wrong.

[NeoSpartan]

Gaul. A land of rolling hills, strong rivers...and Aedui. God I hate them. I have at least 4 legions (army with 15 units) in Gaul, but the experienced Gaesaetae are always a problem for me. Gallic armies with a few of these hard asses in em i can take. Its just when seven supported by Solduros come at me i begin to wet myself. How would you guys tackle this situation? Keeping in mind I outfit European legions with

-1 General
-2 Brihentin Cav
-2 Sortaroas (sp.)
-2 triarii
-4 neitos
-4 principes

Any tips would be great, as I need to know if there's a better method to kill these crazy nudists. Once I've won the war ill introduce Gaul to clothes. "This is a toga, these are sandals..."

Ur army suck... too small to take on the FULL MIGHT of Gallic elites!

My sugestions... (although I as a Gallic player shouldn't)

(Hellenic style variation)
-1 General
-5 Cavarly (brihentin, or pedites extraordinary)
-3 Helvetii or Pezetaroi (sp)
-4 Triarii
-1 Urundous (sp) (the naked regular guys)
-4 Principes.
-2 Velitets

(non-Hellenic style)

-1 General
-4 Cavarly (heavy)
-4 Triarii
-4 Neitos/Samniti Extraordinary (sp)
-4 Principes.
-2 Velitets (sp)
-1 Urundous (sp)

Three main differences:
1. MORE MEN!
2. No crappy missiles against heavy infantry.
3. Stronger Cavarly arm.

[Apgad]

Yeah, I'd go with more calvary too. I'm pretty sure the whole "intimidated by nearby enemy" doesn't apply to horses. Probably because they've got a bigger "weapon", if you know what I mean...

[The Celtic Viking]

Yeah, the gaesatae only frighten enemy infantry.

I would however suggest throwing, hurling, slinging, shooting, conjuring and catapulting anything you can on them. Gaesatae are weak to the ranged stuff, and that their experience is useless in defending against it doesn't make things worse for you.

[antisocialmunky]

Set your units in guard mode in two rows and wait them out. They'll get tired before you do and then its time to hack them to bits.

[pezhetairoi]

To the OP:

You really can't handle that with just 15 units. More cavalry is a must (though the Gaesatae also eat through cavalry, you can pound the Solduros with your AP Brihentin) and slingers also. Many, many slingers. 6 units would be a nice minimum. They have the longest range of any missiles ingame in the West, so that'll give you more volleys. Not to mention you can shave their armour from 5 to 2/3, and you get 30 shots at them instead of the regulation 15 of archers, and if your slingers are experienced, better still. Mori Gaesum, as mentioned before, or even Appea Gaedotos, will suffice too. Hold them with your Neitos and phalanx troops, then hammer them from behind with slingers for gaesatae and brihentin for solduros, while flanking with your principes. And pray hard your Neitos don't break before.

I think the intimidation effect of Gaesatae isn't cumulative, so 7 gaesatae in one place makes no more difference morale-wise than 1 unit present. So you don't have to worry about that at least. Let them pile on your phalanx. But not so deeply that some units can disengage to counter when you begin flanking/rearing.

[Morte66]

Get more missiles, you want a high attack value and lots of ammo. Then fight a battle of manoeuvre. Attack their army on the strategic map, so they will wait for you rather than coming at you on the tactical map. Send in skirmishers and cavalry feints to pull their army out of shape (not actual attacks), and lure off units one or two at a time then mob them. Lure their cavalry onto your spears.

Once your slingers/skirmishers can roam free without fear of cavalry etc, start long flanking moves to put them behind the nudists. If they turn to face the missiles, move some cavalry up close to them (without fighting) to get them pointed back the way you want. Then fire away, you won't see much effect at first as you take the first hitpoint but after a while they'll start dying like regular celts.

Do the closest thing you can to horse archer tactics, basically.

[Chris1959]

I agree with antisogialmunky guard mode is a very powerful tool, especially for the Romanii, your units will hang on longer against elites and buy time to get round the flanks and rear.

[marodeur]

My legions in the polybian era are always composed of 1 triari, 2 princeps, 2 hastati, 1 extraordinari, 1 roman/federati cavalry, 1 velites and one unit slingers (usually romans). I combine two of those legions with one general (together 19 units) and one merc/local troop, most often cavalry or archers. I can't guarantee victory against gasatae by doing this, but I win 2 out of three battles against gallic armies containing larger groups of Gasatae. Weaken them with arrows, stones and javelins, isolate them from other units and after this concentrate on them and attack them with cavalry-support. In my experience, it is most important to use the terrain to your advantage: fight downhill or hide in woods and lead them into a trap. Won't say it works like a charm, but it definitely gives you quite a good chance to win. And yes, it will cost you quire some lives. I hope to improve upon my kill-ratio with the use of new marian legionnaries.

[marodeur]

but I think it would be better - and more realistic - if really exceptional elite-units such as the gasatae (and the holy band phanlanx, the spartians, ....) would be restricted, so you could only have a certain amount of them at the same time.

[Morte66]

but I think it would be better - and more realistic - if really exceptional elite-units such as the gasatae (and the holy band phanlanx, the spartians, ....) would be restricted, so you could only have a certain amount of them at the same time.

I wonder if they could be made into non-recruitable but regenerating units (like the FM bodyguards). They'd be created by script, and if they get wiped out they're recreated at the capital with one man (to regenerate up). So the Gaulish factions get a regenerating unit of naked fanatics each, created at the capitals or wherever is appropriate. The KH get a unit of Spartans at Sparta (and not if they lose Sparta). The Maks get a unit of Hypaspists created at the capital, upgrading to two if they have 25+ provinces. Sacred Band at Carthage. And so on, as appropriate.

Or something along those lines...

[Pharnakes]

Imposible and inacurate, IMHO.

EDIT: Marodeur, your idea is impossible for RTW, but is already in the pipeline for EB2, AFAIK.

[marodeur]

EDIT: Marodeur, your idea is impossible for RTW, but is already in the pipeline for EB2, AFAIK.[/QUOTE]

Hope dies last. (i don't know whether this is understandable in english, it's the translation of a german saying "Die Hoffnung (hope) stirbt (dies) zuletzt (last)".)

[NeoSpartan]

but I think it would be better - and more realistic - if really exceptional elite-units such as the gasatae (and the holy band phanlanx, the spartians, ....) would be restricted, so you could only have a certain amount of them at the same time.

EB2

edit: (this is NOT a joke)

[Palasta]

Gaul. A land of rolling hills, strong rivers...and Aedui. God I hate them. I have at least 4 legions (army with 15 units) in Gaul, but the experienced Gaesaetae are always a problem for me. Gallic armies with a few of these hard asses in em i can take. Its just when seven supported by Solduros come at me i begin to wet myself. How would you guys tackle this situation? Keeping in mind I outfit European legions with

I usally conentrate missilefire on Gaesatae/elite-units, pin them down and brake their backs with cavalry. in short: beat the hell out of them.

Hope dies last. (i don't know whether this is understandable in english, it's the translation of a german saying "Die Hoffnung (hope) stirbt (dies) zuletzt (last)".)

or "Hope is the last to die".

[delablake]

I actually didn't. Pila do jack sh*t on a gaesaetae charge, they just keep coming. Are slingers best used against these madmen? Apparently they're better against armour than bowmen, but i don't know myself. Cheers

I think the best would be heavy machine-guns and flamethrowers and maybe one or two Lockheed AC-130 gunships to be sure...but, as these means are not available in ancient Rome, I prefer volleys of burning arrows (not in "fire at will" modus) from the flanks for psychological effects, triarii to keep them at range, hastati for backup and pila, and finally 2 heavy cavalry from the flanks and 2 into the back.

[Pharnakes]

Does it really need all that?

Personaly I have never had a problem with gaesatae, pin and flank, chain routs will do the rest, quick time.