Let us come up with some interesting historical units

[Oleander Ardens]

For fantasy units use the other thread, thanks


1. Tyrolean Sharpshooters or Marksman ("Scharffschitzn" or "Scheibnschitzn")

Renowned for their loyality to the crown and their Kaiser these men are organized in guilds in every larger village of Tyrol and are eager marksmen. Regular training sessions are a requirement and a man which does not find the time to train must pay a heavy fine to his fellow shooters. Great competitions sponsored by the Kaiser attract thousends of shooters. Equipped with rifles of the famous Southgerman and Austrian gunsmiths there are able to hit targets from a surprisingly long range, but at the cost of firespeed. Usually they would use every cover on the field, ambush from a safe position and try to snipe from afar. Their reputiation was umatched in Europe.

History: As a matter of fact the inflictated their french and bavarian heavy defeats starting around 1700. They had a natural tendency to ambush enemy columns from high points with good cover and to surround them slowly. They often barricated the exit of narrow canyons and initiated prepared landslides of rocks and treetrunks. Only required to defend their homeland they fought hard and bravely but were averse to cavalry. They won practically every battle against the french and bavarians, only loosing once when few picked up their rifles after feeling traited by Austria once more. After 1809 they formed the mold for the famous german jaeger units which played an important role in freeing the german states. Some Tyroleans even fought in their ranks after Tyrol became a part of Bavaria.

Trivia: The traditional lament of the German forces was propably written under impression of the 1809 rising in Tyrol, from a bavarian viewpoint.

A Part of it goes:

"A bullet flew towards us
is it meant for me or meant for you?
It took him away,
he lies beneath my feet
like a piece of myself."



Number 2 is to come soon

[Rhyfelwyr]

I think this is a great idea for a thread, its early days in the development of ETW so if Lusted or the CA crew have a look we might just get a unit into ETW.

Ropaire

Factions:   Rebels (or any Irish factions if they are included)
Unit Type:  Melee Infantry
Abilities:  Expert at Hiding in Forests
            Can Hide in Long Grass
            Combat Bonus in Woods or Snow
            Bonus Fighting Cavalry
            Good Stamina

Due to irregular warfare throughout Ireland up until the 1700's, guerilla warfare was quick to develop throughout the 17th Century as Irish Catholics fought for James II against the Presbyterian Scots settlers and later the more generally Protestant armies of William of Orange. Ropaire, also known as "Rapparees", are effective ambushers armed often with a half-pike for use in melee. Consisting of mainly Irish Jacobites, these are hardy soldiers, although they must depend on the element of surprise if they are to stand against professional armies, as well as being able to reach the enemy before they are brought down under gunfire.

[Mithradates]

Would i be right in thinking about an Irish regiment called the Wild Geese that fought for France during this period, might add some flare to what could be an army of blue coats?

[Forward Observer]

I want these guys (Scots Royal Greys)

I drool at the thought of restaging a glorious charge like this from the famous painting by Lady Butler
Scotland Forever


Their initial charge into the 45th French infantry at Waterloo was a great success, but unfortunately they were fired up and would not stop. They continued on attacking some of Ney's artillery when they were counter attacked by heavy French lancers. Their commander was killed and their unit so decimated that they were no longer an effective fighting force in the battle.

Of course I plan to pull them back just in the nick of time if they are used in Empires--lol

[Matt_Lane]

My choice would be Horse Artillery or in particular Ramseys H Troop, British Royal Horse Artillery



Available towards the end of the game Horse Artillery would be able to provide a highly mobile close fire support to infantry and cavalry alike. No longer limited to placing artillery to the rear the general will be able to move these units to where they are needed then scoot them out before the enemy can engage them in melee.

The mobility and firepower offered by these units is a forerunner of the modern tank and self propelled gun. Its introduction offers a change of tactics, an interruption of the trinity between cavalry, infantry and artillery. Infantry form square to defeat cavalry and line to lessen the impact of artillery. By accompanying the cavalry into battle the Horse Artillery are able to inflict substantial damage on the infantry squares.

The Royal Horse Artillery are the elite units of the British Royal Artillery. Each Troop consists of three, two gun Divisions. Each single gun, sub division had a six pounder gun and livery pulled by a team of horses, ridden into the fray by the gun crew. Uniformed and armed as light cavalry the gun crew where expected race into position, wheel about and have the gun ready to fire shot or canister in under a minute.

Despite being at the sharp pointy end of the battle not one gun was lost by the Royal Horse Artillery to the French during the entire Peninsular Campaign. During the battle of Fuentes de Onoro the 7th Infantry Division were rescued from over whelming French cavalry by the Light Division and the Royal Horse Artillery. During the exchange Ramsey's two gun division became surrounded by the French cavalry. Rather than surrender their guns they mounted up, drew saber and fought through their way back to the British lines.

It could not be said that the Royal Horse Artillary unit type was unique, the Prussians were the first to adopt this unit and the French horse artillary far out numbered the British. However their versatility, penash and battle honors make them my favorites for the above title.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Interesting units? Won't get much more interesting then Austrian air rifle troops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle

btw
It would be incorrect to state that the RHA was the elite part of the Royal Artillery. It did not get the pick of the recruits. The RHA was created to work alongside the cavalry. Aside from this role a RHA battery was not very different from other batteries.

Further btw,
The Union Brigade's Waterloo charge is exactly why Wellington despised his cavalry. I think he was somewhat harsh on his light cavalry by including them in his blanket disdain but his heavy cavalry was indeed unfit to fulfil their tasks.
You can't deny they had courage. They just lack the good sense and leadership you'd want also. In Spain too they repeatedly mistimed charges, went without orders altogether or just plain didn't stop when they should. Almost always with the predictable terrible results.
At Waterloo D'Erlons Corps had already been defeated by the Dutch, Hanoverian and British infantry. A charge by heavies wasn't all that needed, though if done well it would succeed in kicking the French when they were down, always a good practise. Had they stopped their charge in time it would've been a splendid charge. Instead, they were virtually destroyed by their overconfidence in charging the French guns and not retrteating straight after.
Ponsonby robbed his commander of the further use of his British heavies, and only saved himself from disgrace by getting himself killed. Pity he took half his unit with him.

[Matt_Lane]

Interesting units? Won't get much more interesting then Austrian air rifle troops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle

btw
It would be incorrect to state that the RHA was the elite part of the Royal Artillery. It did not get the pick of the recruits. The RHA was created to work alongside the cavalry. Aside from this role a RHA battery was not very different from other batteries.

Great choice with the Austrian air rifle troops, although I don't envy them recharging their air cylinders.

I reckon its fair to say the RHA were elite, they certainly regarded themselves as coprs d'elite. The Royal Artillery struggled to recruit sufficient troops and those that did join preferred the more glamorous RHA to the Field (RFA) or Garrison (RGA) groups. The RHA undertook more training than the RFA, in battle it would expend up to twice as much ammunition as the RFA, it had better equipment and for these reasons it was more expensive to maintain than the RFA.

The RFA suffered from a lack of numbers but especially a lack of horses, thus restricting their movement. Until the introduction of shrapnel a cannon is best positioned on flat level terrain in front of the enemy so that the shot can skip and bounce through the ranks. The mobility offered by the RHA meant that they could take best opportunity from the terrain and the enemy movements, inflicting damage disproportionate to the their numbers and guns caliber.

I don't presume them to be the best unit, on balance the French artillery where dominant on the battlefield. In fact Wellington is supposed to have forbid his artillery from counter battery operations, having them concentrate on firing on troops instead. The fact that they were the underdogs, that the RHA used its mobility to counter this threat and that they offer glamor and glory against a back drop of the often forgotten Engineers and Artillery sets them aside for me.

[lancelot]

If America is indeed in the game, then there are loads of distinct units that can be included there- all the famous mountain troops/sharpshooters etc etc.

Id also love to see distinct 'colonial' troop types such as British-American Loyalist units, Native American allies/scouts.

Im sure there must be loads more too...

[Nikos_Rouvelas]

The green Mountain Boys from USA would be cool.

[Oleander Ardens]

First thanks for some nice ideas. I personally think that we have a rich pool of historical units from which CA can choose rather interesting once. Never heard for example of the Ropaire which sound rather unique to me.


About the Girandoni rifle. Girandoni was infact a raetoroman (ladin) speaking Tyrolean, and a testimonial of the skill of the local gunsmiths. The weapon itself was technological marvel, capable to deliver rapidly 35 shots stored in a tubular magazine with good accuracy. Smokeless and with the power of a .45 ACP. Howerver so complex and so different was this weapon that only specialists could handle it. Thus it was only given the small "regular" tyrolean sharpshooter corps which was usually divided in small groups throughout the austrian skirmishers.

BTW even the regular, oldfashioned rifles allowed the tyrolean milita to win a great deal of their skirmishes while suffering only a fraction of the french or bavarian casualities. The first encounter 1706 resulted for example in over 200 dead bavarians and exactly 3 dead tyroleans...
Of course not every victory was so loopsided


2. American Frontierman

Expectional marksmen and hunters were also on the other side of the Atlantic terrible enemies if the circumstances favored them. Armed with a offspring of the german rifle, the Kentucky Rifle they were capable of accurate fire from a long distance, delivered usually from behind cover. Fast and agile they are more than a match for british regulars, although a cavalry or a bajonet charge will put them in grave danger.


History: to follow


OA

[Zaleukos]

From the 30 years war (early 17th century conflict that engulfed Germany and large parts of Europe)

Hakkapellitans: Finnish cavalry armed with pistols and rapiers (?). Serve in the Swedish army. Devastating charge and excellent morale. Weak horses (as all Swedish cavalry has due to the poor climate), however that is modelled.

Croatian mercenary cavalry: Traditional light cavalry.
Scottish/Irish mercenaries: Come as various kinds of excellent but expensive infantry.

For a large part of the era mercenaries should be much better than "national" troops, particularly in battlefield morale, but have significantly higher upkeep costs.

For the "early" era: Polish hussars. Essentially medieval knights, with a devastating but impetuous charge. Can pack a punch but will be massacred once disciplined musketeers/riflemen with a decent rate of fire come along.

[Vlad The Impaler]

http://www.caransebes.ro/istorie/istoric/istoria_en.htm

Through an imperial decree from 1762 the Empress Maria Theresa sets up the military units for the guarding of the borders, and so, in the year 1768, the Romanian-Banat Border Regiment nr.13 is established. From its founding, the regiment had quite a few names: the Border Regiment nr.72 (1769), the Romanian - Illyrian Border Infantry Regiment (1775), the Wallachian - Illyrian Border Regiment nr.13 (1798), the Wallachian - Banat Border Regiment nr.13 (1838), and finally, the Romanian - Banat Border Regiment nr.13 (1849).
In its organization it had many stages, before it finally contained: the Bistra Valley, from the Marga commune until Caransebes, the Timis - Cerna passage (with the adjacent valleys), from Orsova until the Svinita commune, Craina Banateana and the Almaj Valley, from the Prigor commune until the Lapusnicul Mare commune. From a military point of view, in the peace time, regiment was organized in 12 companies, who had a variable number of border guard communes (a total of 96).
During the 104 years in which the regiment functioned, it gave 25 generals, over 200 superior officers, a great number of inferior officers and sub officers. Over 40 boarder guards followed the superior courses. For the courageous actions, the flag of the regiment, officers and sub officer and also boarder guards were recompensed with the following orders and medals: 10 of gold, 31 of silver 1st class and 36 of silver 2nd class. On one of the straps of the flag of the regiment there was written: “The courage of Romus, let it be over us”. This strap is exposed at the History Museum in Vienna.
20 years after the disbanding of the Nasaud regiment, in 1871, the border regiment of Caransebes is also disbanded, because of a new form of governing, the Austro-Hungarian dualism, but also because of the reduction of the Turkish danger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C4%83s%C4%83ud

A former Habsburg border town known for its border regiments with panache and good schools

So the austrian army can have in her ranks two wallachian borders regiments, Caransebes and Nasaud.One of them fought against Napoleon in Italy. I have hard time in finding resources regarding these two units but maybe somebody that have more knowledge in austrian army history can help me

[IvarrWolfsong]

Hakkapeliitta actually rode Finnhorses which were very high quality and rather large for the time.

They were light cavalry that hit like heavy cavalry and terrified their foes to the point of inspiring special prayers for protection against them. Their ferocity, speed and violence of action led some to believe they were enhanced by witchcraft (and being wierd Finns didn't help in that regard... Freaky hungaraineskimoscandanavianreindeersovietmassacringwoodsysaunagoing types ).

[Akeichi Mitsuhide]

British Redcoats, dont need a pic or discription cuz every1 knows who they were.

[Rodion Romanovich]

British Redcoats, dont need a pic or discristion cuz every1 knows who they were.

The lobsters!

[LegioScythia]

Since i see that the hussars were already mentioned.

Cossacks

The Cossacks (Russian: Каза́ки, Kazaki; Ukrainian: Коза́ки, Kozaky, Polish: Kozacy) are a traditional community of people living in the southern steppe regions of Eastern Europe (primarily Ukraine and southern Russia) and Asian Russia. They are famous for their self-reliance and military skills, particularly horsemanship. "Cossack" may also refer to a member of a Cossack military unit. Originally Cossacks were runaway Ruthenian peasants who escaped Polish and Russian feudal pressure and settled in the southern steppes.

[Daithi MacGuillaCathair]

the wild geese were not a regiment but a name that applied to those irish who had gone into exile and served forces of other nations (apart from england) from those of france to more obscure units such as the san padrigos (spelling?) of Mexico.

[MansaSakura]

Hessian Mercenaries (I think i spelled that wrong) for the Brits in the Revolutionary War.

[monkian]

The lobsters!

I thought 'lobsters' was the name given by the Brittish to French heavy cav because of their armoured breast plates ?

Gotta have 95th Rifles in there ; )

[geala]

Only a few simple wishes now. Horse artillery (Prussia, France and Great Britain at least had it), Kings German Legion troops and Prussian Jägerbataillon were my candidates. Perhaps a British unit with Fergusons ingenious fast firing breechloaders which had no great impact only due to some strange circumstances - although such weapons would be unfair.

[Akeichi Mitsuhide]

Ive got another unit, more of a ship :)

Fluyt/Fly boat: A BIG cargo ship designed and made AND used in and by Holland/Netherlands and several other country's for transport. Even though this type of ship was designed to be a cargo vessle, it had 2 rows of guns and quite some room for on-deck muskets, propably for own protection. These were the preferred ships for the hunt on the Silver Fleet by with Piet Hein as commander.

http://www.modelships.de/Derfflinger_I/kgDSC01244.jpg

Note: This pic is of a model ship and thusly, think the guns to be of 2 rows, and a broad lower-deck.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I thought 'lobsters' was the name given by the Brittish to French heavy cav because of their armoured breast plates ?

Gotta have 95th Rifles in there ; )

Ok, but they said "lobsters" in one of the Hornblower movies

[Boyar Son]

it was lobster back.

spain has to have some? dont they?

were the scotch troops mentioned? they would be a good addition to the British army.

[Lorenzo_H]

Black Watch!

[Sheogorath]

I'm sad. Nobody's come up with Pavlovsk Grenadiers yet?
The regiments depot battalion (IE: mostly non-combat troops) charged across a burning bridge under heavy fire, and cleared a whole town of French troops on their own.
They also had a reputation for launching bayonette charges against cavalry.
Plus, they had awesome hats. Nothing rounds out a bunch of psychopaths armed with muskets like a really cool hat.

[Freedom Onanist]

Ok, but they said "lobsters" in one of the Hornblower movies

Yep, sailors called marines lobster backs. It was also a term picked up and used by American revolutionaries.

[Matt_Lane]

Yep, sailors called marines lobster backs. It was also a term picked up and used by American revolutionaries.

I read somewhere that a nickname for the British infantry was Thomas Lobster and the sailors John Tar.

[Matt_Lane]

Sorry to drag this one out of the mire of long forgotten threads but after reading about these I could'nt resist including;

Compagnie d'Aeronautiers, 1794 - 1799, the original air force. The French Aérostiers were armed with four aerial reconnaissance balloons, L'Entrepremant, Celeste, the Hercule, and the Intrepide. Each balloon was manned by a 24 man ground crew and two observers. In 1794 the first balloon, L'Entrepreman was credited with helping secure victory at Battle of Fleurus. In 1796 all four balloons were used in different fronts of the French Revolutionary wars and in 1797 they where part of the Egyptian expedition. This however was their downfall and during the Battle of Abukir the British forces destroyed their equipment. Upon their return to France in 1797 Napoleon disbanded the force and closed the balloon school. After this war was not to take to the skies for another half a century.

[Anonymous II]

I most certainly support the Dutch Flyut and the Scottish Black Watch.

[Sheogorath]

From what I know, the Fluyt was a rather poor combat vessel. It was good for trade and travel, but it was specialized for those roles and was lightly armed and not very sturdy in a fight.