Prester John (and strange re-emergences)

[Bregil the Bowman]

I mentioned on the Pics & History thread that the English had re-emerged in Armenia, a province they had never owned or even bordered during the game. I figured some kind of weird "Prester John" uprising was taking place under some lost crusader lord. By the time I got there with my emissaries, the locals had utterly suppressed the Christian uprising and all that remained were rebels with camels and UM, so I have no idea how this army was composed.

However, a few years on the English are back - in Anjou, Britanny and - strangely enough - Armenia.

Not only this, but while the troops in France are pretty average High Era Catholic soldiers, the troops emerging in Armenia are of the Golden Horde variety! Very strange, since they are in English livery and and no point did the GH get as far as Armenia either.

Anyone have any idea what makes such varied armies appear in such distant provinces under the same banner? Anyone else experience any really odd re-emergences?

[Heidrek]

The only thing I can think of to explain the Armenia thing is that when a faction re-emerges, often other Rebel held provinces join the re-emergence. I'd always thought they had to be adjoining to the province where the re-emergence occurs, but perhaps not?

I'd hazzard a guess that at the time the re emergence happened, Armenia was a GH units Rebel territory? Perhaps a crusade passed though it or something that might mark it as English held for a period of time, but then again, perhaps not. Perhaps you just get random rebell provinces joingin what ever re-emergence happens to come up at the time?

Certainly very strange, and very tough to deal with as well. Having scattered provinces change ownership like that makes it hard to wipe the re-emerging faction back out again.

[sharpshooter]

Well Bregil -that certainly is curious, and rings a bell for some campaign I had years back. I can't remember the details ... but it brought to mind something I read in Wikipedia, while looking for something else:

In the Caucasus Mountains of Georgia, in the remote highland region of Khevsureti, a tribe called the Khevsurs are thought to possibly be direct descendants of a party of crusaders who got separated from a larger army and have remained in isolation with some of the crusader culture intact. Into the 20th century, relics of armor, weaponry and chain mail were still being used and passed down in such communities. Russian serviceman and ethnographer Arnold Zisserman who spent 25 years (1842–67) in the Caucasus, believed the exotic group of Georgian highlanders were descendants of the last Crusaders based on their customs, language, art and other evidence.[27] American traveler Richard Halliburton saw and recorded the customs of the tribe in 1935

[ULC]

Did a crusade ever go through the province? It's happened to me too, but with French Georgians. The only thing I can think of is that a crusade passed through their and that somehow allows a re-emergence there.

[sharpshooter]

Ha ... it must be the Khevsurs emerging! (see my post above).

Maybe it's just one of those quirky things the developers put in - perhaps when a crusade has failed in the region the Khevsur condition is enabled.

Maybe not, of course.

[Martok]

Did a crusade ever go through the province? It's happened to me too, but with French Georgians. The only thing I can think of is that a crusade passed through their and that somehow allows a re-emergence there.

I was wondering this as well. Keep in mind that a faction can reappear in *any* province they once possessed -- even it was for only a year, and even if they never assaulted the stronghold (if there is one).

[Ironside]

The only thing I can think of to explain the Armenia thing is that when a faction re-emerges, often other Rebel held provinces join the re-emergence. I'd always thought they had to be adjoining to the province where the re-emergence occurs, but perhaps not?

Rebels joining can happen anywere (probably based on closeness to the faction reemergence though, aka closer rebels got prio), had Arabia joining the HRE, that came back in western Europe, once.