roman manipular formation?

[Callicles]

Konny's right.

Once your first line has been engaged for a while, pull them back behind your second. You'll notice that you'll lose a few men as they pull back (it's a shame you can't have them walk backwards so they don't turn their back on the enemy), but that is to be expected. In the end, you'll lose a lot more by not pulling them back.

As soon as the hastati are disengaged, active "throw javelins" option for your second line. Depending on how tired the enemy is, either hold the line or charge with your principes.

Also, at the beginning of your campaigns with newly raised armies, you will lose more men with new recruits than with veterans. As such, I recommend bringing along an extra unit or two of whatever makes up your first line (in this case, hastati). After the battle use your "reserves" to fill in the casualties. During the battle, keep them far behind the main battle line so they won't be threatened. Usually, I have them guard any archers from flanking maneuvers by enemy cavalry.

By brining your reserves with you, your main battle line will gain experience faster (I think) and you won't need to stop in cities as often to refit.

This is easier if you have a uniform army (say, of marian cohorts or of all classical hoplites) because then you can keep merging the veterans together to create a veteran force, while brining reserves up from the capital.

[mrtwisties]

Here's my question - how does one not get surrounded when you deploy in three lines?

(it's been a while since I played Romans - with the Hellenes I just draw my pike lines thin)

[konny]

Here's my question - how does one not get surrounded when you deploy in three lines?

When your cavalry is not able to protect the wings you are Canneaed. On the other hand, you still have the Triarii who can flank everyone from the third line who is flanking you - they are in particular lethal to cavalry in a pitched fight.

[Callicles]

Moreover, if you are concerned about being flanked, the conventional wisdom is to shorten your line and increase your depth. Putting your army in three lines rather than one has this same effect.

with the Hellenes I just draw my pike lines thin)

Generally, I think about depth more than length. Maybe I'm wrong in that regard. It seems that infantry is more capable of withstanding a charge if they have more mass (that is, more depth). But if the line is thin (only 3 or 4 men deep), then the enemy can easily punch through, disorganize the line, and cause a mass route rolling up the remainder of the line.

Of course, for the contrary position, see the Battle of Cannae; Hannibal had a pretty thin line there, and the Romans were very deep.

[beatoangelico]

the good thing about the roman army is that no matter how many men they may lost, your front line hastati won't break. I usually employ a deep 4 or 5 line formation with the Romani: the hastati always suffer most of the casualities, but they allow the other lines to do their job without routing

[CirdanDharix]

Moreover, if you are concerned about being flanked, the conventional wisdom is to shorten your line and increase your depth. Putting your army in three lines rather than one has this same effect.



Generally, I think about depth more than length. Maybe I'm wrong in that regard. It seems that infantry is more capable of withstanding a charge if they have more mass (that is, more depth). But if the line is thin (only 3 or 4 men deep), then the enemy can easily punch through, disorganize the line, and cause a mass route rolling up the remainder of the line.

Of course, for the contrary position, see the Battle of Cannae; Hannibal had a pretty thin line there, and the Romans were very deep.

Counter a deep formation by double envelopment; counter a double envelopment with superior cavalry.

Or at least this seems to be what history teaches us.

[Decimus Attius Arbiter]

Here's my question - how does one not get surrounded when you deploy in three lines?

(it's been a while since I played Romans - with the Hellenes I just draw my pike lines thin)

I use AP or Spear "allies" to defend against cavalry. If needed and usually not, I have the triarii and cavalry to follow up. Also I deploy with half unit spaces which gives me width. My formation goes 6-6-2 with the triarii on the flanks.

[Reno Melitensis]

When deploying the manipular legion, both defensive or offensive, the trick is to deploy the Velites between the maniples of Hastati. When on the defensive, they add a lethal salvo of pila to those thrown by the Hastati. Their skirmish mod will get them out of harm way. Dont wait to long, move in the Principe, they will add more pressure.

When attacking they will shower the enemy as the Hastati and then the Principe attack. Always keep the Triari in reserve, deploy them where needed.

As for the Roman Cavalry, the Equites are only good to persue the enemy while routing. Equites Extra. and the Consular cavalry with the all new Campanian cavalry are much better. At times when facing an enemy with much better cavalry deploy skirmishers with them. When campaigning in the east I usually take Peltastai.

Now here is my consular legion: 5 maniples of Hastati, 5 maniples of Principe, 3 maniples of Triari, 3 to 4 units Velites, 1 Accensi, the rest Cavalry and or allies. For a change I take 2 units of Hastati Samnitici, and two units of Milites Samnitici. Lucanian Light Infantry are taken as support to my cavalry when needed.

Cheers

[Vasiliyi]

Thanks a lot, you've all given me some pointers and tips on some things I've done wrong, I've actually used a couple of these strategies and VOILA! My campaign in northern gaul is going so much smoother, I guess I was keeping the hastati engaged way too long, I'm also incorperating locals to fight and using them as my meat wall (a lot of fun to kill gauls with other gauls; it solves both overpopulatuon problem in my gallic cities and creates retrainable units) very handy. Thanks to all who helped