EB 1.1 Suggestions 2

[Maksimus]

ONE BIG CALL FOR HUMANITY - PLEASE!

Originally posted by ''Barbarossa82'' in his ''Gold Mod Collection''. The term “extermination” sounds too cruel, and that was not the case in history

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=90798

''EXTERMINATION AND PUBLIC ORDER
The problem: In pure vanilla, you have the option to "exterminate" a settlement you conquer, and the game tells you how many people will be killed. Because of squalor, culture penalty and distance to capital, extermination can quickly become the rule rather than the exception as your empire grows. This not only makes it hard to roleplay a faction with any degree of humanity, but is quite unhistorical. Organised mass slaughter of the majority of a settlement's population was historically rare. More likely was a situation where a commander would allow his troops to basically run riot, looting, raping, pillaging and generally brutalising the settlement. The difference here is that a lot of the locals would just flee or be turned out of their homes rather than being rounded up, executed and buried in a mass grave as RTW's text and graphics imply.
The solution: Text, the "exterminator" line of traits and graphics have been changed to make it a bit more ambiguous what exactly is happening in the settlement you decide to exterminate. Instead of the option to "exterminate populace", you are now given the option to "suppress populace". The text descriptions, graphics and sounds are now more consistent with the spontaneous depredations of a victorious army set loose by their commander, rather than the 20th-century-style industrialised genocide implied by the original text. Of course if you're a complete git who loves the idea that your troops go around wiping out entire populations, the new text is ambiguous enough to allow you to believe that.''




I really agree on this, can EB team use this feature as on far more real and better solution for the game

AND ONE MORE THING!

I have already posted the BALLISTA solution's here - like add to exp_descr_units.txt 2 times more soldier's and an Officer and SBear and 2 times more ballistas in the unit - then lower the ballista attack by 2 times - and you have unit that LOOK's like a unit and make's sence to COST like HELL!

Please.. EB team comment (I know that some EB member's already answerd the Ballista question but I just want to make sure they did not forhet the answer's

[cmacq]

BALLISTA solution?

[Maksimus]

Yes, so that it would look like this..

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;;;;;;;EB Siege;;;;;;;;;;;;;
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

;343
type generic siege 3span
dictionary generic_siege_3span ; Triaspanai Katapeltai
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 48, 16, 0.85
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
engine scorpion
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 12, 2, scorpion, 350, 30, siege_missile, blade, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 5000, 1900, 30, 40, 5000
ownership romans_brutii, romans_julii, numidia, macedon, saba, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, carthage, romans_scipii, parthia, seleucid, slave, pontus, armenia, gauls, britons, scythia, germans, dacia, spain

;344
type generic siege 3cubit
dictionary generic_siege_3cubit ; Triakubitai Katapeltai
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 32, 8, 0.85
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
engine catapulta
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 20, 2, ballista, 280, 30, siege_missile, blade, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, launching
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 9000, 2500, 30, 40, 9000
ownership thrace, greek_cities, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, egypt, spain, romans_brutii, seleucid, saba, slave, carthage

;345
type generic siege 30mina
dictionary generic_siege_30mina ; Triakontaiminai Lithoboloi
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 8, 0.85
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
engine 30Mballista
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 20, 2, boulder, 300, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area,
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 15000, 3200, 30, 40, 15000
ownership thrace, greek_cities, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, egypt, spain, romans_brutii, seleucid, saba, slave, carthage

;346
type generic siege 1talent
dictionary generic_siege_1talent ; Monotalanta Lithoboloi
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 4, 0.85
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
engine 1Tballista
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 38, 2, big_boulder, 240, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area, launching
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 30000, 4500, 30, 40, 30000
ownership thrace, greek_cities, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, egypt, spain, romans_brutii, seleucid, saba, slave, carthage

;347
type roman artillery scorpio
dictionary roman_artillery_scorpio ; Vitruvian Scorpions
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 48, 16, 0.85
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
engine scorpion
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 14, 2, scorpion, 380, 30, siege_missile, blade, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp
stat_pri_armour 1, 6, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 5000, 1900, 30, 40, 5000
ownership seleucid, slave

;348
type roman artillery catapulta
dictionary roman_artillery_catapulta ; Vitruvian catapulta
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 16, 0.85
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
engine catapulta
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 12, 2, ballista, 303, 30, siege_missile, blade, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, launching
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 9000, 2500, 30, 40, 9000
ownership seleucid, slave

;349
type roman artillery 30mina
dictionary roman_artillery_30mina ; Vitruvian 30 mina stone thrower
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 8, 0.85
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
engine 30Mballista
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 32, 2, boulder, 303, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area,
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 15000, 3200, 30, 40, 15000
ownership seleucid, slave

;350
type roman artillery 1talent
dictionary roman_artillery_1talent ; Vitruvian 1 talent stone thrower
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 4, 0.85
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
engine 1Tballista
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 42, 2, big_boulder, 270, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area, launching
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 30000, 4500, 30, 40, 30000
ownership seleucid, slave

This is one solution for better look's of siege equipment and for the worth of Money you spend on it, This is one suggestion that add's officer's, more man power and more siege pieces for ballista unit's.. Do, In vice versa method - you are lowering the attack value verses the more amoun't of siege pieces added in EDU. In ancient times, numbers of units very much greater in siege unit's and they had officer's - or you can consider them to be enginerires.. And it would solve prob I have when I have to give 4500 per turn just for couple of peasant's with two siege gun's






Now, this looks like one siege :D

[Centurion Crastinus]

I agree, I think it would be more realistic to rape and pillage a town as oppossed to massacaring it. I usually just enslave the populace.

[The General]

Now that sure is a lot of handlers, most of whom have the perfect opportunity to stand there doing nothing.

[Palasta]

The main problem is, the player is allowed every single time he captured a city, to choose between those three options and of course, most will go for the easy way and send the soldiers in for killing and looting. No severe consequences, a plenty of cash and keeping down the unrest.

The presented "solution", i guess it is only make-up and the effects remain the same. Is the process of capturing a settlement actually moddable or absolutely hardcoded?

EDIT: Sorry for that, i meant "make up", not "make over".

[Darth Stalin]

Well, as a Roman player in my EB campaign at the beginning I preferred to enslave rather than to exterminate, as half of the populace was moved to my own settlements )those with family members as governors), so I could rather well steer the process of growth when I needed my city to grow faster.
Now, as I'm going to conquer larger settlements (and started from Syrakousai), I think that I'll start to loot, pillage and massacre, as I can get much more cash from that...

[Maksimus]

The main problem is, the player is allowed every single time he captured a city, to choose between those three options and of course, most will go for the easy way and send the soldiers in for killing and looting. No severe consequences, a plenty of cash and keeping down the unrest.

The presented "solution", i guess it is only a make over and the effects remain the same. Is the process of capturing a settlement actually moddable or absolutely hardcoded?

In RTW vanilla there was a BIG problem in whic you are doomed any way - That no matter how much army and building's (that have positive effect on public order) you have - you will have riot's.. That is very bad for gameplay and even worse for Historic accuracy!

- And yes, if those high level's of riot's per town verses one amount of let as say - 50 years - are so frequent that you are forced to leave the town to rebel's and then take it again by force just to keep it your own - Then yes, you or I just have to Exterminate the population more often and basically all the time in some period's

Even bigger problem is that EB managed to Keep that Vanilla Extermination pace very well - and unfortunately for EB player's - in one very genuine vanilla way

Thera are much more simple solution's to unable the human player to exterminate all the time - Just by rising the public order point's to all building's can solve that and adding some law_bonuse's to academic's building's and wall's for example and barrack's too!

[Maksimus]

Now that sure is a lot of handlers, most of whom have the perfect opportunity to stand there doing nothing.

Do you have one idea how many people is needed to position those stones we are launching in the city? No? - Well I don't know either

But it sure is more people than we can add in the EDU (due to the engine)

The point here is that if you loose some soldier's you can still use the equipment, In that way it could be used in battle (as it was used) like in the case in siege's of ancient times.
If you loose some people you have an option tu use just 50% of equipment or 20% - that is closer to nicer look's, historical accuracy, realism and the VALUE of SIEGE that you need to PAY and MAINTAINE

[The General]

Do you have one idea how many people is needed to position those stones we are launching in the city? No? - Well I don't know either

But it sure is more people than we can add in the EDU (due to the engine)

The point here is that if you loose some soldier's you can still use the equipment, In that way it could be used in battle (as it was used) like in the case in siege's of ancient times.
If you loose some people you have an option tu use just 50% of equipment or 20% - that is closer to nicer look's, historical accuracy, realism and the VALUE of SIEGE that you need to PAY and MAINTAINE

While I understand your point, I think the amount of crew was exaggerated.

I doubt there would've been dozens and dozens of people per siege "battery" (~unit) on the campaigns. Some extra members, yes, but doubt that many.