EB 1.1 Suggestions 2

[The General]

Now that sure is a lot of handlers, most of whom have the perfect opportunity to stand there doing nothing.

[Palasta]

The main problem is, the player is allowed every single time he captured a city, to choose between those three options and of course, most will go for the easy way and send the soldiers in for killing and looting. No severe consequences, a plenty of cash and keeping down the unrest.

The presented "solution", i guess it is only make-up and the effects remain the same. Is the process of capturing a settlement actually moddable or absolutely hardcoded?

EDIT: Sorry for that, i meant "make up", not "make over".

[Darth Stalin]

Well, as a Roman player in my EB campaign at the beginning I preferred to enslave rather than to exterminate, as half of the populace was moved to my own settlements )those with family members as governors), so I could rather well steer the process of growth when I needed my city to grow faster.
Now, as I'm going to conquer larger settlements (and started from Syrakousai), I think that I'll start to loot, pillage and massacre, as I can get much more cash from that...

[anubis88]

that's really a problem for roleplaying... if you conquer a huge city you can forget about just occupying it since it will revolt very soon and kill half of your soldiers.... Again a stupid vanilla thing

[Maksimus]

The main problem is, the player is allowed every single time he captured a city, to choose between those three options and of course, most will go for the easy way and send the soldiers in for killing and looting. No severe consequences, a plenty of cash and keeping down the unrest.

The presented "solution", i guess it is only a make over and the effects remain the same. Is the process of capturing a settlement actually moddable or absolutely hardcoded?

In RTW vanilla there was a BIG problem in whic you are doomed any way - That no matter how much army and building's (that have positive effect on public order) you have - you will have riot's.. That is very bad for gameplay and even worse for Historic accuracy!

- And yes, if those high level's of riot's per town verses one amount of let as say - 50 years - are so frequent that you are forced to leave the town to rebel's and then take it again by force just to keep it your own - Then yes, you or I just have to Exterminate the population more often and basically all the time in some period's

Even bigger problem is that EB managed to Keep that Vanilla Extermination pace very well - and unfortunately for EB player's - in one very genuine vanilla way

Thera are much more simple solution's to unable the human player to exterminate all the time - Just by rising the public order point's to all building's can solve that and adding some law_bonuse's to academic's building's and wall's for example and barrack's too!

[NeoSpartan]

Suppress Populance?????????

nah man... people were plundering (which in turn suppressed the population into submission).

I think renaming it to "LOOT and PILLAGE", is better.

[Maksimus]

Suppress Populance?????????
nah man... people were plundering (which in turn suppressed the population into submission).
I think renaming it to "LOOT and PILLAGE", is better.

It really depend's on your personall tought - and what you like

I personally like the word suppression as a noun that is 'more profound' than "LOOT and PILLAGE" - and even that is more true than ''Exterminate'' . In our use of ''suppression'' I refer to the meanings like:

1. forceful prevention: conscious and forceful action to put an end to something, destroy it, or prevent it from becoming known
2. state of constraint: the state of being forcefully restrained or held back

Microsoft® Encarta® 2008. © 1993-2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

EB originally planned to change the occupy/enslave/etc, but didn't do it yet. The plan was to make 'enslave' something along the lines of 'displace' or 'exile', as already represented by the 'refugee camps' when you choose 'enslave'. This thread has brought the topic up again internally, though.

Personally, the term 'suppress' seems like turd polish to me since you are eliminating 5/6(?) of the population of the city no matter what it is called.

[Maksimus]

It is polished how ever

That is a global trend

So, will this be done for EB 1.1?


note:Do you know how often NATO or US offical's used the ''collateral'' word to express what we now know as the mass killing's of civilian's in areas after their armies took part in - I wont start on oil/gas/coca war's here - but I will add that the first time ''collateral'' word was used in ''wider'' sence is during NATO 'solo' aggression on my country - and during the war campaign ''only'' 5000 people died on all side's. But in term's of peace 1999-2007 there are more than 14000 dead and missing civilian's from South Province of Serbia under UNMIK administration!

Sorry for this note - it was stronger then me

[Blazing141]

I agree with MAA. Call it what it is. As far as it not being what was actually done, I think the Romans did quite a bit of killing when they wanted to. the player should have all options open.

On another note, speaking of 1.1, I know it will be released when its done, but I wanted to ask if 1.1 was close to the "unite preview" video stage (i.e., imminently about to be released) or if there is still discussions about what the changes are going to be.

thanks for any insight.

[Wolfman]

pretty words for a naturally ugly thing. Suppress=Rape, Pillage etc, Displace= remove from homeland possibly strip culture from Displaced peoples. Enslave them, separate their families etc.


P.S. I guess Extermination and Enslavement is the wrong word for what happened to the jews in the 40's. Since they were removed from their homes to concentration camps and killed. Same with the African in the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. He was just displaced too huh? Or the Native American, Or the Indian Etc. I must agree with Marcus. Slavery and Extermination are ugly words for an ugly subject and i think its a dishonor to those that experienced such things to try to pretty up what they went through for the modern palate. The Truth is ugly some times.

[Labrat]

EB originally planned to change the occupy/enslave/etc, but didn't do it yet. The plan was to make 'enslave' something along the lines of 'displace' or 'exile', as already represented by the 'refugee camps' when you choose 'enslave'. This thread has brought the topic up again internally, though.

Sounds good. It's silly that you can enslave a population and dragge them over to another city, and then are able to recruit them as hoplites/legionaries over there.

[Maksimus]

Now that sure is a lot of handlers, most of whom have the perfect opportunity to stand there doing nothing.

Do you have one idea how many people is needed to position those stones we are launching in the city? No? - Well I don't know either

But it sure is more people than we can add in the EDU (due to the engine)

The point here is that if you loose some soldier's you can still use the equipment, In that way it could be used in battle (as it was used) like in the case in siege's of ancient times.
If you loose some people you have an option tu use just 50% of equipment or 20% - that is closer to nicer look's, historical accuracy, realism and the VALUE of SIEGE that you need to PAY and MAINTAINE

[The General]

Do you have one idea how many people is needed to position those stones we are launching in the city? No? - Well I don't know either

But it sure is more people than we can add in the EDU (due to the engine)

The point here is that if you loose some soldier's you can still use the equipment, In that way it could be used in battle (as it was used) like in the case in siege's of ancient times.
If you loose some people you have an option tu use just 50% of equipment or 20% - that is closer to nicer look's, historical accuracy, realism and the VALUE of SIEGE that you need to PAY and MAINTAINE

While I understand your point, I think the amount of crew was exaggerated.

I doubt there would've been dozens and dozens of people per siege "battery" (~unit) on the campaigns. Some extra members, yes, but doubt that many.

[Pharnakes]

There is a reason why the artiley is so expensive, and that was because they were a logistical nightmare to maitain on campaign, also, the operators were highly skilled individuals, who doutless expected to be shown "appreciation" for their skill.

[Thaatu]

How about changing "enslavement" to something like "mass deportation" that it seems to depict better? I don't know why slaves should be counted amongst the local population... I for one almost never use enslavement, because it doesn't resemble it one bit.

[Maksimus]

How about changing "enslavement" to something like "mass deportation" that it seems to depict better? I don't know why slaves should be counted amongst the local population... I for one almost never use enslavement, because it doesn't resemble it one bit.

I agree - we just have to get an EB member here

I think it could be done.. I am for that change, even in the line meaning of "mass deportation" - one can conclude that it is manly about "enslavement" or "political deportation" - because in Some region's - like if Gonata's take's Athenai, there is really 0,1% of chances he would have ever exterminate the population of thar famous Hellenic city