EB 1.1 Suggestions 2

[Labrat]

EB originally planned to change the occupy/enslave/etc, but didn't do it yet. The plan was to make 'enslave' something along the lines of 'displace' or 'exile', as already represented by the 'refugee camps' when you choose 'enslave'. This thread has brought the topic up again internally, though.

Sounds good. It's silly that you can enslave a population and dragge them over to another city, and then are able to recruit them as hoplites/legionaries over there.

[MiniMe]

For me term "enslave" is Ok.
However, I dislike different vanilla/EB term - "hillmen".
Now who are these? Some kind of eastern hobbits?
Why everybody, who dwells in the hills is supposed to be dressed in rags, have an axe and a couple of javelins?
Or should we, as we see a badly dressed person with an axe and a javelin immedeatly come to conclusion that this person lives in the hills, in some kind of a tunnel, perhaps?
IMO strange choice of words.

[Foot]

Those people who live amongst the hills were largely pastoral, ie kept livestock, and due to the rocky and uneven landscape a more scattered formation was developed, using javelins, slings and light shields and spears. I don't think we use the term hillmen, except perhaps when we have the english translations (which aren't translations, but descriptive names). I see no problem with it.

Foot

[Tellos Athenaios]

We have the Cappadocian Hillmen, the Hyrkanian Hillmen (or was that Hyrkanian Infantry?) and the Anatolian Hillmen AFAIK.

Notice that the "Hillmen" epiteth does really help distinguishing the various units from the regions. For example both the Caucassus and the Anatolian plateau offer a wide selection of local units that are just a local adaptation of widely spread 'style': axemen, light cavalry, medium cavalry, skirmishers, light spearmen and more ligh spearmen.

The ragged look has all to do with the fact that the Hillmen do not exactly come from the most prosperous parts of the world. It is not uncommon for them to seek a career in the military or as brigands either. So, one would imagine they could not afford to buy a new set of clothing after each battle and therefore would keep their best clothing far from it.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

The extermination-button is already ambiguous. "People of this town were killed or sold into slavery."

Although I would also prefer to have the options changed. My proposal would be

1. Occupy
There should be a reduction of the population by 5%. Even if you "only" occupy the city, you have to keep in mind that there are always individuals who chose to pack their things and leave. Occupation is always forceful (what else?), and the more influential citizens, the former ruling class, is very likely to leave and seek their fortune in another part of "their" original nation, where they obviously expect the best opportunities for themselves.

2. Enslave
I propose a reduction of the populace by 30% and their distribution to the governed cities. This option for me means that a part of the population is enslaved by appointment of the occupier's administration, with the goal to have these people till the fields or work in the mines at home. Alexander did that with Greek mercenaries after River Granicus iirc. Also there should be a bit more cash gained than present, for the fortunes of the enslaved are confiscated of course.

3. Let loose the hounds of war
For this option I'd say 65% population reduction is appropiate. You let your mercenaries go through the city, commit all kinds of crimes like murder, rape, burglary and setting fire. The enslaved are not taken home to till the fields, but to bolster the pay of your soldiers as their private property. For that you should not get more money than with option no. 2.

I hope it isn't hardcoded!

[Thaatu]

2. Enslave
I propose a reduction of the populace by 30% and their distribution to the governed cities. This option for me means that a part of the population is enslaved by appointment of the occupier's administration, with the goal to have these people till the fields or work in the mines at home. Alexander did that with Greek mercenaries after River Granicus iirc. Also there should be a bit more cash gained than present, for the fortunes of the enslaved are confiscated of course.

The problem with this is that you can then recruit those "slaves" as, let's say, Roman legionaries. The effects are probably HC'd, but not the names.

[Cybvep]

Ok, this topic seems to be the most appropriate (why are there no more pinned "suggestions" topics for 1.1?)... I have some suggestions concerning buildings. Firstly, I think that building "times" and costs are too low. It's too easy to change a small town to a great city, as it's both not time-consuming and not costly enough. Therefore, I suggest that you increase building "times" by multiplying them by 2 and greatly increase costs of the high-level buildings (and increase low-level buildings costs too, but not so much). Also, some structures are simply unbalanced - especially ports seem to have an extremely low cost-profit ratio. We also know that cities grow too fast, therefore I suggest that you add population growth penalties to the government buildings (I've done it myself and it helps).

From the smaller things:
1. IMO granaries are rather useless while they should be useful. Personally, I changed the "population growth bonus" to a "public health bonus" and eliminated the happiness bonuses, as phbs already increase public order. Phbs are more useful than pgbs (they help with squalor and increase happiness) and it's only logical that a granary would add such bonuses (food can be stored for a greater amount of time without rotting, it's easier to check it etc.).
2. Stone Walls are definitely too cheap and quickly become too widespreaded, while Larger Stone Walls are just ridiculous and should be eliminated. Also, some law bonuses for walls would be nice.
3. Roads... It's funny to see them everywhere after few years. They should be both more costly and more time-consuming, especially the paved ones. Also, I think that an additional "zero level" of roads should be added - something like "Path Preparations" in places where roads would be difficult to build.

[Maksimus]

I agree with you 100%!

It's just that EB team does not see it that way totaly - still, they support the CityMod - which stll does not solve most of problems

In my older mod for vanilla, I used every single thing you just mentioned -
And If you want to change construction times and cost's for building's (so they go up) - you will have to change much in the ''descr_start.txt'' - and even better! In ''Campaign_script.txt'' - so that the Cites have all they 'HAD' of infrastructure and building's at the start already - those two in combination only make sence! That way, you don't have to build sewer's in settlement's that had them in about 500bc already.. the same goes for all many many building's

note: some EB team members already said that if they were to make 'historically' accurate ''descr_start.txt'' infrastructure for EB - then some of the cities would have only a 'few' more things left to build! But EB team doesn't want to 'break the fantasy' and leaves all player's most options so they can enjoy while developing one (any.) settlement..

Well, they dont have to do it for me.. My fantasy was to enjoy as historically accurate 'C_script' as possible.. Now, that is not the case due to the 'gameplay balance' EB team support's - But I understand that most player's like to 'explore' and construct all around the map (that makes you feel powerfull! ,).. even if that should not be the case - so I don't balme EB team - they must work for general public most of the time

Alexander EB team will tweak that in ''ExtendedAlexanderEBMod'' - EAEM

[Cybvep]

Sounds good. In fact, I can do it myself in my version of the game, but I don't have detailed information about structures in every city in the game ... Any help?

[Maksimus]

You should look at historic map's or even better if you have one Historic Atlas

I personaly have alot sources in books - But I don't have much time for detailed research these days..

Anyway's - you can make it quite descent just by looking in Wiki pages