Loitering

[Bijo]

Youngsters who loiter on the streets, near playgrounds, and so on, or anybody who is loitering and acting tough. I find it amusing to some extent.

I was just walking outside to quickly do something and took a shortcut through a playground nearby. There was a small group of young males hanging around (in their teen years). One was slowly riding his bike, some were sitting elsewhere or standing.

I proceed to walk through the pathway leading to the playground. One of them who was in direct view saw me and looked at me with a smug face, as I walked and took a cigarette which I wanted to light up. The kind of smug face that says "Hey, we's hanging out 'round here, we the boss. We're cool, just look at us. We are loitering and we're being cool. We are such young fools and we compensate our ignorance by satisfying our egos that control us weak fools."

Then when I entered the playground itself there were of course more in direct view. You know how it goes: peer pressure and stuff. One infects the other, and they all infect each other. Before you know it you got a whole small group of young simpletons that is trying to act tough and look cool and tries to intimidate to heighten their egos.

Of course, you understand I don't REALLY give that much of a flying **** because I know they are inferior in many ways. It's just that I found it necessary to share this with you and because I want to know how it is in your country, and whatever you can tell about it.

What do you think of such youths -- or any group of any age that loiters and acts tough -- while in essence they are hardly worth anything and they hardly KNOW anything? You know what I think? I think they must be re-educated or they must perish. Come, come my brothers! Let us assemble and go forth to destroy them all! [/preach mode off]

[Fragony]

I think they are dangerous, best is you don't do that again.

[doc_bean]

Meh they're kids being kids.

Also, smoking doesn't seem like a thing for you to do.

[Ronin]

they are just what they look like for the most part....idiots trying to look cool...

I wouldn´t propose to do anything about it because I don´t care either really....

the only time I had a serious problem with such wastes of oxygen I was with 2 friends of mine when a group of 4 or 5 of these types tried to start trouble with us....well....after a bit of hard shoving back and forth (that they started) and one of them yelling in my face that he was gonna kick my ass I decided that enough was enough and head butted him right in the nose......

his friends were gone before his ass had even hit the floor.....he soon followed.

now...looking back at this it sure wasn´t the smart thing to do....and I wouldn´t do it again....you never know what a situation like that can turn into.

but I admit that me and my friends laughed about that one for quite some time....1 second there they were..standing all proud and tough and stuff....2 seconds latter they were running down the street calling for mommy....

pathetic really.

[Odin]

Youngsters who loiter on the streets, near playgrounds, and so on, or anybody who is loitering and acting tough. I find it amusing to some extent.

I was just walking outside to quickly do something and took a shortcut through a playground nearby. There was a small group of young males hanging around (in their teen years). One was slowly riding his bike, some were sitting elsewhere or standing.

I proceed to walk through the pathway leading to the playground. One of them who was in direct view saw me and looked at me with a smug face, as I walked and took a cigarette which I wanted to light up. The kind of smug face that says "Hey, we's hanging out 'round here, we the boss. We're cool, just look at us. We are loitering and we're being cool. We are such young fools and we compensate our ignorance by satisfying our egos that control us weak fools."

Then when I entered the playground itself there were of course more in direct view. You know how it goes: peer pressure and stuff. One infects the other, and they all infect each other. Before you know it you got a whole small group of young simpletons that is trying to act tough and look cool and tries to intimidate to heighten their egos.

Of course, you understand I don't REALLY give that much of a flying **** because I know they are inferior in many ways. It's just that I found it necessary to share this with you and because I want to know how it is in your country, and whatever you can tell about it.

What do you think of such youths -- or any group of any age that loiters and acts tough -- while in essence they are hardly worth anything and they hardly KNOW anything? You know what I think? I think they must be re-educated or they must perish. Come, come my brothers! Let us assemble and go forth to destroy them all! [/preach mode off]

What do i think? I used to be one of those youths. Here is the rub Bijo you got lucky because in some places your the one who would have been re educated. (ever been to LA? the street kids there are real gems)

Your better off avoiding that situation. Of course when i was hanging out and causing trouble none of us had firearms, today its a whole different ball game. Have your smoke somewhere else the next time.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Before you have a family, stand up for principal 100% of the time.

If they are crowding the street and harrassing people, call the policia OR get a few friends and just start hitting. It has worked every time I've needed to get it done.
If you really feel threatened definitely call the authorities, but I would suggest that young people fight before that because you can get away with more in terms of assault when you are wee lads. You also heal faster and don't usually have a job that you need to go to.

[Somebody Else]

I occasionally have nightmares about situations like this... wandering along, and confronted by a gang of little thugs.

...

I don't like the thought of getting blood on my clothes and being arrested for multiple murders...

[Vladimir]

Say it with me: "I was in fear for my life."

[Scurvy]

the only time I had a serious problem with such wastes of oxygen I was with 2 friends of mine when a group of 4 or 5 of these types tried to start trouble with us....well....after a bit of hard shoving back and forth (that they started) and one of them yelling in my face that he was gonna kick my ass I decided that enough was enough and head butted him right in the nose......

his friends were gone before his ass had even hit the floor.....he soon followed.

I had a similar experience (used elbow, not head) but then legged it, just about escaped

we get "loiterers" a fair bit around here, i think it stems partly from the lack of community stuff aimed at young people etc.

[PanzerJaeger]

It's just that I found it necessary to share this with you and because I want to know how it is in your country, and whatever you can tell about it.

{temporarily withdrawn, pending staff review}

[KukriKhan]

Just a thought: Is not what we do here, in the backroom, the off-off-topic subforum of an internet game-fan site, also:

"Hey, we's hanging out 'round here, we the boss. We're cool, just look at us. We are loitering and we're being cool. We are such young fools and we compensate our ignorance by satisfying our egos that control us weak fools."

?

I mean, do we not loiter here, seeking to impress each other with our own definition of coolness?

That said, taking the property of another (snatching a cigarette) is obviously wrong, and in some neighborhoods I've lived in, could lead to some serious consequences, from a shouting match, to a knife-fight, to gunplay, depending on the seriousness of the perceived insult.

Outnumbered, on foreign turf, with no backup, if some kid snatched my ciggie... I'd probably pull out another for myself, offer to pass around the pack to the group, and ask if they had a light.

Killing/hurting kids over tobacco is a waste, so no need to get all Rambo on them. Better to make allies for later. At least then I've settled the cost of passage through their territory.

If I know I'm superior to them, why must I prove it on their terms? Better, IMO, to reset the terms to my own, grownup ones. They're kids, afterall; teachable, malleable, moldable. Basically begging for adult leadership. So provide it, sez I, humbly.

[Husar]

Just a thought: Is not what we do here, in the backroom, the off-off-topic subforum of an internet game-fan site, also:

?

I mean, do we not loiter here, seeking to impress each other with our own definition of coolness?

And I'm obviously the coolest kid in the park.

That said, taking the property of another (snatching a cigarette) is obviously wrong, and in some neighborhoods I've lived in, could lead to some serious consequences, from a shouting match, to a knife-fight, to gunplay, depending on the seriousness of the perceived insult.

Just curious but where did you get that from?
If it's from this quote:

One of them who was in direct view saw me and looked at me with a smug face, as I walked and took a cigarette which I wanted to light up.

I got that as

One of them who was in direct view saw me and looked at me with a smug face, as I walked and [ I ] took a cigarette which I wanted to light up.

otherwise it should be

One of them who was in direct view saw me and looked at me with a smug face, as I walked [ , ] and took a cigarette which I wanted to light up.

If it's version 2 and the guy took a cigarette out of Bijo's mouth/hand, that gives the whole thread a very different meaning.
I took it for version 1 actually which sounds like he's just enraged about loitering as the thread title suggests but version 2 adds an exciting aspect of physical violence and danger with a missing application of the second amendment that unfortunately doesn't exist in the Netherlands.

A cigarette isn't worth a lot, but where do you draw the line? When they take your 300€ cellphone or your 10000€ car?
In caveman terms the guy clearly showed that he's superior in version 2, he can take your property and you do nothing, that's why I'm not yet ready to assume version 2 is true since you need to tell us in that case, whether you blushed or not, Bijo.

[Bijo]

Eh, well... I was simply complaining about people loitering on the streets and acting cool and tough. Husar seems to be correct as it was I who took my own cigarette and was about to light it up. What people did was they were just hanging around and trying to act tough or cool There was no physical aggression or anything of the like nor was my property taken, just people loitering and trying to intimidate bypassing persons like they're a bunch of fools who -- more or less -- live solely on egos and emotions. I perceive them as animals, nothing more, who should be put against the wall

EDIT: I was just passing through, by the way. I lighted and smoked the cigarette as I was underway: I was not maintaining my presence in that area as I needed to be somewhere else and this route seemed the quickest. And this neighbourhood is not a bad one. These kids were just a bunch of youngsters who were trying to act cool, but in essence they're just a couple of schmucks

I wonder what PJ had to say, heheh!

[ICantSpellDawg]

Eh, well... I was simply complaining about people loitering on the streets and acting cool and tough. Husar seems to be correct as it was I who took my own cigarette and was about to light it up. What people did was they were just hanging around and trying to act tough or cool There was no physical aggression or anything of the like nor was my property taken, just people loitering and trying to intimidate bypassing persons like they're a bunch of fools who -- more or less -- live solely on egos and emotions. I perceive them as animals, nothing more, who should be put against the wall

EDIT: I was just passing through, by the way. I lighted and smoked the cigarette as I was underway: I was not maintaining my presence in that area as I needed to be somewhere else and this route seemed the quickest. And this neighbourhood is not a bad one. These kids were just a bunch of youngsters who were trying to act cool, but in essence they're just a couple of schmucks

I wonder what PJ had to say, heheh!

OOOOH it sounded like they took your cigarette. In that case avoid them. But the second they touch your stuff, find an avenue for revenge and punishement. It's the American way.

[PanzerJaeger]

I wonder what PJ had to say, heheh!

I gave an accurate portrayal of the street trash in my city. I mentioned race, which must have prompted the deletion.

[spmetla]

It is funny though how people try to act tough in a playground or something like that.

I seem to not have problems with 'punks' at all, I keep to myself but unless I know the area I take the bus or drive my car instead of walking. Hawaii's pretty mellow anyhow, at least for the most part. Been to a few places where "haoles" such as myself are certainly not welcome but then those places tend to have people that are more likely crack/iceheads instead of merely loitering so avoiding said area is important. I hate the idea of the raving mad drug addict trying to start something with me, had one crazy yelling as he went down the street but he just seemed to be yelling out of lunacy instead of at someone.

I imagine if young punks start to feel their oats and try to push people around then the real thugs of the area would put them in their place after a few days.

[Husar]

I once had two young guys at a bus stop in the village where my parents live and they started asking me questions.
That wanted to know whether I thought of myself as strong enough to beat them, whether I'd try to beat them etc. generally they wanted me to attack them and they did barely reach to my chest or so, were several years younger.
I buried their corpses in the forest afterwards. Of course I told them I wouldn't fight them.
To be honest, they were so eager I suspected some sort of trap, I thought if I were stupid enough to touch them they'd probably send their big brothers' gang to beat the living **** out of me and have a great laugh or sth.
Wait that was because they asked me whether I had any big friends or a big brother etc.
It was one of the weirdest encounters I remember and I was happy they didn't enter the bus as I did when it finally came because they really got on my nerves with their nagging.
I've had someone who really wanted to beat me up for looking at him as well though I was a bit younger back then.
Shoot them and bury them in the forest. Mediation and self-control Bijo, or live and let live.
Don't get so emotional over some loitering kids.

Husar, who loiters in front of his PC half the day.

[Odin]

Husar, who loiters in front of his PC half the day.

Half?

[Sigurd]

I once had two young guys at a bus stop in the village where my parents live and they started asking me questions.
That wanted to know whether I thought of myself as strong enough to beat them, whether I'd try to beat them etc. generally they wanted me to attack them and they did barely reach to my chest or so, were several years younger. [...]

Not too long ago I saw a TV program where they discussed impulsive street violence. What made thugs choose a random someone and beat the crap out of him. The proposition was that the victim was in part responsible for being singled out. (not implying that the fault of the violence was the victim's).

The guy who in Glasgow had been assaulted for no obvious reason was brought in together wih three other people (one girl). Some sensors was placed on their bodies and they walked in front of a camera showing their body outlined as dots.
They showed the recordings to an audience of street people and to a panel of self defence instructors. All agreed that the Glaswegian's posture and the way he walked showed obvious signs of weakness, both in strenght and character. This is what predators do.. they single out the weakest before making their move.
After a few lessons with the defence instructors, they recorded the same sequence and this time they chose a completely different person as the weakest.

Husar... maybe you should do something about your posture ??

[Adrian II]

Dear God, what are we coming to?

Look, this phenomenon is as old as mankind. Only fifty years ago, nobody would have been even surprised to find a youthful 'neighbourhood watch' in any barrio, loitering and pestering all those who don't 'belong'. It comes with every territory where hard-working (or hard-drinking) people have kids. In the old days such groups used to fight groups from other neighbourhoods, just for the heck of it. West Side Story, anyone? I remember when I was a history student, I read medieval texts about rural fairs and markets where youngsters would behave in the exact same manner.

These days people in the West take offense at anything, are afraid of every stranger, and know nothing about even slightly different social groups living in the next block in the same town.

[Vladimir]

I think I would have stayed and talked to them then. It's amazing what great friends you can make by simply stopping and talking to strangers. Once they realize you're not a threat they usually open up. A touch of military bearing helps too (and beer). I was a white "army of one" for two years; met some good people, had some great BBQs.

[Husar]

Husar... maybe you should do something about your posture ??

I think my posture and self-esteem have changed since that happened and even then I wasn't really afraid of those two kids.
It's a very nice research you have there but scientifically I shouldn't have been born most likely as I use to fall into the worst corner whenever "animal behaviour" and "genetic predisposition" are mentioned, has to be a wonder I haven't been eaten alive on the street yet or maybe I'm just above the animal behavior that most simpletons seem to follow.

[Sigurd]

I think my posture and self-esteem have changed since that happened and even then I wasn't really afraid of those two kids.
It's a very nice research you have there but scientifically I shouldn't have been born most likely as I use to fall into the worst corner whenever "animal behaviour" and "genetic predisposition" are mentioned, has to be a wonder I haven't been eaten alive on the street yet or maybe I'm just above the animal behavior that most simpletons seem to follow.

*puts on drill instructor hat**

SHOW ME YOUR WAR FACE!!!

*growls*

**I did train to be a drill instructor during boot camp... Alas, My big heart chose further schooling and I ended up in the Royal Norwegian Naval Signal Corps.

[Vladimir]

*puts on drill instructor hat**

SHOW ME YOUR WAR FACE!!!

*growls*

**I did train to be a drill instructor during boot camp... Alas, My big heart chose further schooling and I ended up in the Royal Norwegian Naval Signal Corps.

A viking drill instructor *shudder*.

Since you people are Christianized now there shouldn't be anything to worry about, right? However I still better not see you loitering around the coast of Briton. I don't care if your ship is considered sovereign territory or not.

[caravel]

If you'd stopped for a chat, you'd probably have got your head kicked in and been mugged. I live and work in a pretty rough part of the UK so I do know a little bit about this. These people aren't particularly good at reading body language as they usually exhibit none of their own and are poor communicators. They merely look at it as simply "1 of him 3+ of us, not from around here/doesn't fit in" and about as complex as it gets. It doesn't get much deeper. With street crime and anti-social behaviour on the up, the answer is not to "hug a hoody" but more so to actually have some real police presence and real punishment for thugs. At present the most they can expect for kicking someone half to death, stealing their belongings and filming it on their mobile phones is a slap on the wrist and six months in the slammer - out in two with good behaviour.

[Vladimir]

Well it helps if you're a large alpha male like SFTS and I.

[Husar]

not from around here

That's why I live in the deep ghetto of Essen.

[Myrddraal]

I'd probably pull out another for myself, offer to pass around the pack to the group, and ask if they had a light.

I think I would have stayed and talked to them then. It's amazing what great friends you can make by simply stopping and talking to strangers. Once they realize you're not a threat they usually open up.

I agree. I've been in a couple of fights, with people both younger and older (but not much) than myself. Then one day I was out with friends, I'd had a bit to drink and I backed into this guy (I didn't even realise I had). He started giving me lip, I was with a large group of friends, in no danger, so I challenged him (verbally, I didn't ask for a fight), and this only made the situation worse.

Then a friend of mine just asked the guy, quite forcefully but not aggressively, what his name was. Then when he replied he asked what he did in life. It turns out my studies were the same as his, and I said so. A couple of sentences later we were both appologising for our behavior.

It was kind of like forced friendliness, and he broke everything that was impersonal about the situation. It's like the internet, if you don't know someone, you don't feel you need to be polite, and hence trolls and flaming occur (only on the net it's worse, because you're protected by anonymity as well).

Anyway later I thanked my friend and told him I thought it was remarkable how well that worked. I wouldn't have dreamed of introducing myself to the guy, he was being far too aggressive. I thought that if I asked what his name was he'd say it was none of my buisness and do my head in.

Apparently my friend has even had appologies from people who punched him in the face by fighting back by introducing himself. Crazy stuff, but it works.

Kukri and Vladimir have it right I think. Offer the guys a cigarette, it's a great ice breaker. I don't smoke, but I'm seriously thinking of starting occasionally just so I can use that tactic.

[Tribesman]

Offer the guys a cigarette, it's a great ice breaker.

Offer the guys a cigarette and take advantage of the distraction , its a great jaw breaker .

[caravel]

It's very naive to think you can talk your way out of every such situation. A misunderstanding in a pub with someone that has had a few too much to drink is a different situation to tackling a gang of intimidating yobs on your own in the street. They will probably accept the first cigarette you give them, then follow you and mug you for ther rest. Or the next time you see them you will be pestered again and again, until eventually when you do refuse it will turn nasty - and my experience of these kind of people does show that they change like the wind. Many of you are applying your own logic and principles to people that are often both unprincipled and illogical/unpredictable in their actions. A cousin of mine tried the "Kukrikhan approach" a few years ago with some kids that were perstering him outside an off licence. His reward for this was to be followed on his way home and then attacked in an alley way. His willingness to give them a cigarette was seen for what it was, weakness, and resulted with him spending the night in accident and emergency. The sad part is that he knew he was being followed but thought nothing of it as he assumed he was now "ok" with them. He had judged them by his own standards which was a mistake. I will also add that this individual was by no means a weakling nor did he exhibit any of the "weakened animal" body language referred to above.

Personally I think I'd go for the "Tribesman approach".