What makes Hayasdan a hard faction to play as?

[tapanojum]

Great and Minor Armenia and surrounding provinces make an excellent base for future exansion. leaving it as you did, moving to the place with no mines and quite far from major trade routes, isnt something i would do.
it be easier in a long run if you built mines and proper infrastructure in your place of origin and then moved else where, imo.
good luck

I have already a campaign as Hayastan where I am doing fairly well and pushing into the heart of AS.

I thought it would be fun to put a new spin on things, not because defending the valley paths of Hayastan are difficult. Fun campaign tho =]

[Calypze]

Well, thanks for all the replies. Seems like a hell of a faction if you actually got the patience to turn it all right.

[Yossarian]

They are a fun faction to play as alright.

I left a disastrous Pontos campaign to try out the Hayasdan instead. I thought their starting position and terrain looked much stronger. I wasn't prepared for their extreme poverty though. After taking three cities I was still very short on cash and was barely breaking even with a stack one third strong being my only real offensive force. That's when the AS started attacking my territory.

I decided to go on the offensive and bet it all on one strong hand. I allied with the Ptolemies, then got myself some Scythian riders, and cut deep into the heart of the Seleukid kingdom. I took Karthakiokerta, Mazaka and then swept south and seized Anthioceia and Edessa with a little assistance from the Ptolemies who distracted the main AS stack. I moved fast and took Babylon, Seleukeia and then Charax. Now the AS are barely sending anything at me. They almost seem frightened of my four units of Scythian riders with two or three silver chevrons guarding the eastern border along with my faction leader.

Since these horsemen was accompanied by my only mobile infantry force, Pontos decided to attack from the north in 251 BC where my cities were garrisoned weakly. I had zero to spare since I directed every penny to the southern campaign. Now it's just a question of redirecting the war effort to the north...

[Parallel Pain]

Which one has worse economy, Hayasdan or Pontos?

And which one has a better defensive postion? A better position for expansion?

[General Appo]

I´d say Pontos has a better economy, with easy access to relatively rich regions. Hayasdan always starts very poor, as all nearby regions are basically mountain ones with at most a port or some mines.
Otherwise, I´ve found Hayasdan has a easier defensive position, though by no means easy. With both factions the Ptolies will often take Antiocheia, Damaskos, Palmyra and Edessa within the first 20 years, and if that happens then you are really in a positoin to strike at the Sele´s.
In my Hayasdan campaign the Ptolies had even taken Sardis, Ipsos and Babylon after 20 years, so I could just steam-roll over undergarrisoned Seleukid city´s.
Then when you´ve taken out as much of the Sele´s you like, send a big army by ship to take Alexandria and Memphis, and then hold them against counter-attacks while expending against weak city´s. If you time this with a attack in Syria or where ever your border against the Ptolies is, you´ll almost certainly win.

[d'Arthez]

Hayasdan may be poor, but it is not that bad.

The trick is to safe money --> build army. It does not have to be big, it just needs to be good enough for one mission. Pick FM and conquer a city. Then disband 90% of that army (you can keep highly depleted units, as retraining may be less expensive in the long run). Rinse and repeat.

Caucasian Spearmen and Caucasian Archers are extremely useful, despite their low costs. The Caucasus can be conquered without too much cavalry.

This works extremely well for the Eleutheroi Caucasian cities. My preferred order is Ani-Kamah, Trapezous / Kotais, Mtshketa, Kabalaka, Phraaspa.

Despite your economy being poor, in the first few years you simply don't need much garrisons. Building a port in Kotais and getting some traderights with Pontus, and the Western Hellenic factions also improves the situation a lot. Build roads. Build markets, and build basic farms. Armavir is a bit special as it needs population boosts as well.

By the time you have taken Phraaspa, you are guaranteed to run into some Seleukid aggression. By that time your economy should be on track. Use your spy network to get an early warning when they are invading. Build up defences in that city (90% of the time it will Armavir anyway), and move the second army from Phraaspa to Ekbatana. Once you conquer and enslave Ekbatana, your cities with FMs will get nice population boosts.

And another big defensive bonus for the Hai is that cities are further apart than in Asia Minor. Use your spies and watchtowers. I think Hayasdan are overall the easier faction.

[Yossarian]

Spies are essential, even more so when playing as a weaker faction with cities spread wide apart as the Hayasdan. For instance, I didn't have time to respond to the new threat posed by Pontos in the north until they had taken Ani-Kamah from me. By that time I had diverted an army intended to swing east-south into AS territory to instead retake Ani-Kamah and lay siege to the heavily guarded pontic capital.

I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of serious cash flow from settlements along the Tigris river such as Babylon, Seleukeia, Chartax and one other I can't remember the name of. I was counting on being able to field two, or at least one and a half stacks worth of forces after taking those cities along with Anthioceia, Edessa, Mazaka and Karkathiokerta. As it is, I am barely able to maintain my southern stack containing four Scythian riders and two Babylonian spearmen (south), plus my northern force which has four horse archers, two foot archers and four light infantry. I need mines, but man they are expensive!

Can anyone advise me on how to make my economy prosper?