What is the best Phalanx unit?

[Decimus Attius Arbiter]

Actually the huge difference in armor from a levy phalanx (p. phalangitai) to a medium phalanx makes a HUGE difference in combat, levy phalanxes will get chewed up, even from the front, if they don't receive help in a short period of time where with the medium and elite phalanxes you have a lot more time and flexibility to break enemies that are pinned on your phalanxes. The medium and elites lose a lot less men on average per battle too, compared to the p.phalangitai. It's much better to use at least the medium phalanxe, since these don't have more than 2 to 3 points of armor difference from the elites.

Agreed. Also, they are pure phalanxes in that they are dead if flanked. With The other units you have more time to react. But they do very well on hills. I took few casualties facing Kleuruch phalangites who just got mauled. It was painful to see them do a Dead Zone/Dario Argento like move. How can you keep walking up a hill with a pike through your chest?Ouch.

[Eduorius]

Pantadapoi Phalangitai or Mistophoroi Phalangites.

To me any phalanx that can hold the enemy is good. I waste my money and recruiting time in cavalry when I play as a Hellenistic faction.

[Dayve]

All these people saying levy/cheap phalanxes do a good job, i think you're on drugs. I've been playing as Makedonia for weeks and levy phalanxes aren't worth a damn. They'll do fine against light infantry, but against any other phalanx, even one with merely 1 more point of armour/melee, they will get chewed up real quick.

They're cheap and it shows. They don't route so easily, their morale is fine, but they take heavy losses every single battle, even if they are put in the center of your line with other more armoured phalanxes either side of them.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Pantodapoi are excellent supportive phalanxes: their AP axes come in handy. And being cheap is a good thing when the main job you use them for is to survive the autocalc against lots of missile infantry the Eleutheroi come up with... At least for me the Autocalc is a lot more easy on my armies if I stick a phalanx unit or two in my armies.

EDIT: Also with phalanxes it is about having the right formation depth. For example if you are up to superior phalanxes but do have the greater number it pays to double your formation depth: the phalanx will literally hold twice as long, and it'll push twice as hard too.

[antisocialmunky]

In all fairness to the elite loving guys, do you honestly think that the only way to use phalanx is head to head? Lets be realistic. Any unit that will hold the enemy for a good amount of time for them to be flanked is a good unit in my book and the better price/performance you get, the better they are.

Besides the Mac Reformed Phalanx looks the best right up there with the Epirote ones.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I've been cruel to the AI at times: hitting it from the sides with elit phalangitai; and literraly battering through its formations (which is more a job for levy phalanxes, btw). Sacrifice one unit at the right time - nothing is more effective and morale dropping for the enemy than to see its formations being ripped apart and find itself being envelopped from all sides.

[Eduorius]

You just need to resist the enough time for your superior cavalry to win over the enemy cavalry and charge against their enemy phalanx from the back.

You can even do them a Theban Oblique formation and many of your levies will not be touched, before the cavalry arrives.

[jhhowell]

All these people saying levy/cheap phalanxes do a good job, i think you're on drugs. I've been playing as Makedonia for weeks and levy phalanxes aren't worth a damn. They'll do fine against light infantry, but against any other phalanx, even one with merely 1 more point of armour/melee, they will get chewed up real quick.

They're cheap and it shows. They don't route so easily, their morale is fine, but they take heavy losses every single battle, even if they are put in the center of your line with other more armoured phalanxes either side of them.

It all depends on what you're using the phalanx for. I say pantodapoi phalangitai are the best phalanx because they're widespread and cheap, and any phalanx is as good as another in combat the way I play. They only take heavy losses if they face another phalanx for any length of time, which rarely happens with good cavalry support. As soon as something is pinned the cavalry swarms in behind and the enemy unit routs (doesn't much matter how good the enemy unit is, either). Every faction I'm aware of who can recruit their own phalanxes rather than using mercs has a very nice cavalry selection - Prodromoi and Hetairoi for the Hellenes, Kinsmen and cataphracts for the easterners. They are the decisive arm, and the ones on whom money should be spent lavishly, exactly like Eduorius said. Phalanxes, eh, who cares as long as they carry a sarissa. I'll bring in Klerouchoi sometimes if I'm playing one of the successor factions since they're also very widespread, but the so-called elites are just not worth the bother for me.

[Eduorius]

Any unit when outmaneuvered is defeated. Phalangites are too slow, and having Elites, unless this mod is about the Greek Classical Period, will not give you the win.

See Ilipa or Cynoscephalae as examples of why is better to go cheap with phalanx and crazy spending with flanks.

[overweightninja]

Last few replies share the point, I'm not saying the levy phalanxes are anywhere near as good 1v1, its the cheapness and availablility that count, like I said as long as you dont let them get flanked, and use them as support or well supported themselves they do the job, especially early on for obvious reasons.
Cheers

[konny]

Yes, phalanx is best used when having many of them in a long line. 4 or 5 should be the minimum in a full stack. I usually have 10 units for the phalanx-line, that is 6 phalanxes, 2 swordfighter or axemen, one on each wing immediatly next to the phalanx, and one unit of non-phalanx spearmen next to the swordfighters. The rest are the support- and assault-forces: slingers, cavalry, more medium infantry.

When I am not able to field at least 4 untis of phalanx for an army plus all the support forces, I made it a doctrine to not use any phalanx at all in that army. From my experince, when you don't have enough phalanx to let these do most of the fighting against the enemy infantry, you are better off without them because then they just stand in the way of the more mobile units.

From that point of view the best phalanx is the cheapest - as long as you don't have to fight an enemy who has either more of them or the same number but better units.

[gamegeek2]

What about the Chaonion Agema?

[The General]

I like Pezhetairoi the best, probably.

Good looking, efficient, dependable, and not-too-expensive, they form a solid battle line to pin the enemy down with.

Of course, the elite ones are better 1v1, but they're usually also awfully expensive, and due to the fact that I usually start building a new army always when I get enough incomes I never get enough income to build elite-armies.

While I understand the pro's of the cheap levy-phalanxes, they usually suffer more losses, can't be trusted as well, and, well, (vanity FTW) they usually don't look that good, and thus be unfit for ze Imperial Legions.

So, I'm gonna go with Pezhetairoi.