Will You Buy a SecuRomed Empire?

[Caerfanan]

Sorry guys, I don't get it: when I buy bread, I pay the guy who made it. Same for many things. Why wouldn't I pay for the guys who design and sell a game I will spend hours and hours on?

[hellenes]

Sorry guys, I don't get it: when I buy bread, I pay the guy who made it. Same for many things. Why wouldn't I pay for the guys who design and sell a game I will spend hours and hours on?

Can somebody please tell me how this is relevant to the discussion?

[TosaInu]

I guess a more appropriate question is: Would you install a SecuRomed Emire: Total War?

[thebigbossnahhh]

There is Software that SecuROM provides if you write to them that removes the programme from your Computer.
A Bit confusing to use as it isn't a double click remove programme, it gives you instructions on how to remove SecuROM from your run text box.


But yeah, Quality deserves to be bought, I have Eras, Med 2 and Kingdoms and games are getting bigger and bigger so requires money, any Mod on here can tell you how hard it is to even do the basics that they do but Hard coding, that's something else .

[TosaInu]

Hello thebigbossnahhh,

The discussion isn't about not buying ETW as in obtaining illegal copies.

Not buying should, in this case, be seen as not willing to install.

It would be nicer when there was an option to deinstall SecuRom together with the game. That's the least a customer should get.

[ArtistofWarfare]

Hello thebigbossnahhh,

The discussion isn't about not buying ETW as in obtaining illegal copies.

Not buying should, in this case, be seen as not willing to install.

It would be nicer when there was an option to deinstall SecuRom together with the game. That's the least a customer should get.

Well, I'm definitely going to go ahead and agree with you on that one.

Especially if contacting Sony yields free software to remove the program in the first place. If this is the case, there's absolutely no reason the software should not be able to be uninstalled like every other program in existance.

I do NOT see the purpose behind this...well, I guess I do. It just doesn't benefit the paying consumer one bit.

[Caerfanan]

Can somebody please tell me how this is relevant to the discussion?

Can somebody please tell me first why I perceive this as agressive, and then what this Securom thing is? If it's somethnig to prevent you from copying the game, isn't that some "normal stuff"?

Which I illustrated with a simple exemple (well, apparently less simple as I expected, sorry about that): why ranting against anti-piracy stuff if not because you encourage it? I used the exemple of a "shop" where you actually BUY things and consider it normal. Then, oddly, when it's music or games or films, it's a shame to pay...

Then again, I could've missed something, I'm no computer geek, I know some things, but don't follow closely all the info, so if I misunderstood something about Securom, please explain... Is that some nasty independent softaware that sends information about your system or something?

[Puzz3D]

Can somebody please tell me first why I perceive this as agressive, and then what this Securom thing is? If it's somethnig to prevent you from copying the game, isn't that some "normal stuff"?

SecuROM installs a shell extension that prevents Windows Explorer from deleting 16-bit executables. SecuROM is not removed when you uninstall the game, and it can cause other programs you may use to malfunction. In other words, compatibility issues can arise between SecuROM and other software, and you won't know that it's SecuROM that's causing the problem because it doesn't show up on your system as being installed. In fact, the game company conceals from the user that SecuROM is installed by their game. So, the user isn't even aware that SecuROM has been installed which makes it pretty damn hard to figure out why some program that it conflicts with isn't working.

[Caerfanan]

SecuROM installs a shell extension that prevents Windows Explorer from deleting 16-bit executables. SecuROM is not removed when you uninstall the game, and it can cause other programs you may use to malfunction. In other words, compatibility issues can arise between SecuROM and other software, and you won't know that it's SecuROM that's causing the problem because it doesn't show up on your system as being installed. In fact, the game company conceals from the user that SecuROM is installed by their game. So, the user isn't even aware that SecuROM has been installed which makes it pretty damn hard to figure out why some program that it conflicts with isn't working.

Oh... Ok, then that's another thing. Why on earth would a program prevent you from deleting a program? And then, yes, it should at least be easy to uninstall then... But, err, what does this have to do with a proctection against copy? I mean, why add this program to a game? And BTW, as my "gaming computer" is also my "working computer", I might not install that kind of stuff on it, then...

Hello Caerfanan,

Konbawa Tosa Inu,

I believe it is a customers right to make a personal backup copy of software. Abuse a book and you can (normally) still read it, scratch a CD and you can not install or play the game (apart from the tiny scratches which are error corrected).

Of course publishers are allowed to protect their investments. But this already gives a conflict with the customer.

I recall something about crashing/locking hardware a couple of years ago due to playing a legal audioCD.

This SecuRom software is installed on the computer and remains there even after uninstalling Kingdoms.

One is not allowed to copy books, I still have to encounter the first copy protection there. Exploding copymachines? Exclusive reservation of a bookshelf even when the book is thrown away?

Granted, it's a whole different medium and one on one comparisons are odd.

I don't think there's a copyprotection that hasn't been bypassed. But for the honest customer it's becoming harder: require online activation and quit when you change hardware, phone in to some distant country to activate, damaged optical equipment, remaining software. Maybe it's time to focus on encouraging purchasing legal copies rather than devising harsh copy-protection.

This topic is not promoting piracy, it is about the anti-piracy measurements that do not hurt the pirates but the customers.

Yup, with Puzz3D's and your explanation it's more clear. Thank you. I still think that functionning with "replaceable" 1 for 1 CD for very cheap would be best. Like you sell the first time the game to someone, and then the guy, if he has a problem with the CD can exchange it (literally) with a new one, for a price which should be then about the CD's + litttle time to burn it. Sort of a big "developper based backup". You bring back the CD that doesn't work and that you cannot play anymore with, and go with a new one. Would be simpler, wouldn't it?

[TosaInu]

Oh... Ok, then that's another thing. Why on earth would a program prevent you from deleting a program? And then, yes, it should at least be easy to uninstall then... But, err, what does this have to do with a proctection against copy? I mean, why add this program to a game?

I haven't looked into SecuRom, but my guess: it's intended to block CD-emulation software, thus preventing ten friends to share one copy on different computers.

Yup, with Puzz3D's and tyour explanation it's more clear. I still think that functionning with "remplaceable" 1 for 1 CD for very cheap would be best.

This was an option with STW published by EA: it was a one time replacement for $25 (? will dig up the manual). The BI manual only mentions the 90 days warranty and states that the customer is not allowed to make copies (that includes your personal backup copy I think).

Edit:
From EA's STW readme: 12 months warranty, fll25,- ( ~$12,50) to replace 1 CD after 12 months, fl35,- for both.

[Caerfanan]

I haven't looked into SecuRom, but my guess: it's intended to block CD-emulation software, thus preventing ten friends to share one copy on different computers.

Yes, and to avoid the one rabbid dog we kill all animals on the planet. Fair enough... That's really, as you say afterwards, nasty...

This was an option with STW published by EA: it was a one time replacement for $25 (? will dig up the manual). The BI manual only mentions the 90 days warranty and states that the customer is not allowed to make copies (that includes your personal backup copy I think).

Edit:
From EA's STW readme: 12 months warranty, fll25,- ( ~$12,50) to replace 1 CD after 12 months, fl35,- for both.

That was a good start, but still, 9 euros is too expensives. Let's say some 2-3 euros... That would sound fair.

[TosaInu]

SecuROM installs a shell extension that prevents Windows Explorer from deleting 16-bit executables. SecuROM is not removed when you uninstall the game, and it can cause other programs you may use to malfunction. In other words, compatibility issues can arise between SecuROM and other software, and you won't know that it's SecuROM that's causing the problem because it doesn't show up on your system as being installed. In fact, the game company conceals from the user that SecuROM is installed by their game. So, the user isn't even aware that SecuROM has been installed which makes it pretty damn hard to figure out why some program that it conflicts with isn't working.

That's nasty Puzz3D.

The discussion, at least partly, is about the need to be able to uninstall SecuRom when you uninstall the game, but software like this is simply something you don't want on your computer at all.

Right now it may sound like I say: 'SecuRom is ok when you can uninstall it'. It's not ok at all.

[Jochi Khan]

SecuROM installs a shell extension that prevents Windows Explorer from deleting 16-bit executables. SecuROM is not removed when you uninstall the game, and it can cause other programs you may use to malfunction. In other words, compatibility issues can arise between SecuROM and other software, and you won't know that it's SecuROM that's causing the problem because it doesn't show up on your system as being installed. In fact, the game company conceals from the user that SecuROM is installed by their game. So, the user isn't even aware that SecuROM has been installed which makes it pretty damn hard to figure out why some program that it conflicts with isn't working.

That is the reason why I will definately NOT buy or install Kingdoms or Empire.

[Mouzafphaerre]

That is the reason why I will definately NOT buy or install Kingdoms or Empire.

.
Is it confirmed that Empire will be shipped with it?
.

[TosaInu]

Hello Caerfanan,

I believe it is a customers right to make a personal backup copy of software. Abuse a book and you can (normally) still read it, scratch a CD and you can not install or play the game (apart from the tiny scratches which are error corrected).

Of course publishers are allowed to protect their investments. But this already gives a conflict with the customer.

I recall something about crashing/locking hardware a couple of years ago due to playing a legal audioCD.

This SecuRom software is installed on the computer and remains there even after uninstalling Kingdoms.

One is not allowed to copy books, I still have to encounter the first copy protection there. Exploding copymachines? Exclusive reservation of a bookshelf even when the book is thrown away?

Granted, it's a whole different medium and one on one comparisons are odd.

I don't think there's a copyprotection that hasn't been bypassed. But for the honest customer it's becoming harder: require online activation and quit when you change hardware, phone in to some distant country to activate, damaged optical equipment, remaining software. Maybe it's time to focus on encouraging purchasing legal copies rather than devising harsh copy-protection.

This topic is not promoting piracy, it is about the anti-piracy measurements that do not hurt the pirates but the customers.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

Maybe it's time to focus on encouraging purchasing legal copies rather than devising harsh copy-protection.

.

[R'as al Ghul]

The most ridiculous thing is that copy protection has failed for 3 decades.
No copy protection has ever prevented any software from being distributed freely. Yet almost every new game/software comes with copy protection in one flavour or another. What's even more, the protections have gotten so nasty that they harass the legitimate customer while only those who get the black copy can enjoy the product to the full extend (minus MP in most cases).
When will they learn?

[Whacker]

The most ridiculous thing is that copy protection has failed for 3 decades.
No copy protection has ever prevented any software from being distributed freely. Yet almost every new game/software comes with copy protection in one flavour or another. What's even more, the protections have gotten so nasty that they harass the legitimate customer while only those who get the black copy can enjoy the product to the full extend (minus MP in most cases).
When will they learn?

Oh come on R'as, you already know the answer to this. They won't learn, never have, never will. If anything, they'll keep forming "special interest" lobby groups whose intents are to purchase more legislation that removes our rights regarding what we OWN.

Piracy always has and always will exist. There are two proven methods to combat it to a large degree. The first is a method whereby a game that has single and multiplayer facets uses a key system to authenticate before multiplayer is allowed. id Software had/has this perfectly right with the Quake and Doom series, Valve had it right with WON but then screwed it all up with that DRM riddled pile of poo that is Steam. The other method is to actually, genuinely interact often with your consumer/fanbase and treat them respectfully and show/make good on requests and concerns. Look at Stardock as a perfect example here. They don't use any nasty DRM at all, and have somewhat minimal protections in place against piracy. This doesn't stop piracy of course, and they are a relatively small developer house compared to some of the bigger juggernauts around, but they have a rather large, loyal, and vocal fanbase which is somewhat disproportionate to their size. They didn't get this through treating their customers like garbage, they got it from making good games and listening/interacting with their fan communities constantly and making good on issues raised.

The best thing we can do is keep spreading the word and educating folks. Caerfanan is a perfect example of this, and now he's been made aware of what he's actually doing to his system when he installs this crude. Some people are going to buy the games no matter what even after they're told the facts, some even refuse to believe the facts, but that's individual choice.