Will the internet be filtered/censored in the future?

[Husar]

I think there're two main reasons or applications for connections with high bandwith: p2p and VoIP. I agree with HoreTore that if p2p would be declared illegal and suppressed by ISP's then a lot of people would cancel their contract and go for a cheaper line. Even though VoIP is on the rise, p2p is still the main traffic on the web.

How about high resolution videos and legal downloads? I download demos for example and while a 56k connection could do it with a flatrate, it would take quite some time to finish if the demo is 2GB for example, I prefer to pay a bit more for my 6MBit line which downloads the demos quite a bit faster.
I also like to watch high-res videos from GameTrailers and they seeme to just about use my full bandwith, the cahing bar is usually just a little bit faster than the video plays so a good connection is useful for that. For the rest of the day I use it mostly to play, browse, chat or listen to internet radio which means it's hardly used to full extent, yet I think the 4EUR I pay for the bandwidth alone are not too much.

What I don't get is Husar's point that when I actually use the connection as I pay for (600K/bit flatrate) it is bad for the ISP's. There's no restriction on the amount of data I can transmit. If it would be a problem for the ISP's when everybody used his connection to max then they would be wrong to sell the connections. If they have to expand their carrier net, they need to do that.

No, no and no.
I know for example that T-Online threw some people out a few years ago for using up their whole bandwidth all day long, I'm not saying I agree with it, I was just saying they do that. And noone can force them to expand anything as you pay for a maximum amount of bandwidth, if you get less out of it then that's your problem, if you want a bandwidth guarantee you have to pay more, like companies do, they pay a few hundred bucks per month extra to reserve a certain bandwidth which guarantees them that bandwidth because for them it's vital to have that guarantee. This guarantee does not exist for the normal home user however.

They have to anyway, unless we want to stop the internet evolution right now. I'm aware that in some countries the Internet is still sold by the Mbyte or GB but if I buy a flatrate I want a flatrate, meaning no restrictions on volume of data.

That's how I see it but then until lately some ISPs seemed to disagree.
This article is in German and from 2006 but although I haven't read it, it seems to adress the issue.

Imagine for example I wanted to help spread linux distros by torrent. I could run my torrent client with max upload 24/7 and not break any points of the contract.

I don't think your tiny upload speed bothers them as it's just a fraction of your maximum download speed unless you pay them a fortune anyway, at least as far as I'm aware.

BTW, cutting a DSL connection every 24 hours is completely normal and has nothing to do with the bandwidth you're using.

No it doesn't but it's also not normal, if you have a flatrate it's not like they're saving you any costs, in fact they break all your current connections which I wouldn't call normal at all. they just do it hoping that you won't be connected all day long if they do that.

[KukriKhan]

So, if I understand correctly, your point is that filtering/censoring, or otherwise throttling back access is not only a legal/moral issue over content, but may also be a matter of resource management by ISP's.

[Husar]

So, if I understand correctly, your point is that filtering/censoring, or otherwise throttling back access is not only a legal/moral issue over content, but may also be a matter of resource management by ISP's.

They may want to use it as one, my point was just that they are not dependant on the existance of p2p networking and that some(not all!) who claim that may just be afraid they can't steal their software as easily anymore. I personally think they should keep the internet open and not censor any sites or traffic but then some third parties already do that themselves which resulted in me being unable to access google video in the first few months of it's existance or getting inflated prices and a germanized games lineup on Steam just because my IP can be identified as german.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Why not get an interpol cooperation going to bust pirates, especially those who upload? Filtering and censoring will not solve the problem, you can always encrypt the pirates files and make them unrecognizeable, do private communication, and various other things which will sabotage all filtering systems anyway. The key issue is to crush and destroy all hosting of pirated material, and leave private communication and freedom of speech alone.

[Husar]

Why not get an interpol cooperation going to bust pirates, especially those who upload? Filtering and censoring will not solve the problem, you can always encrypt the pirates files and make them unrecognizeable, do private communication, and various other things which will sabotage all filtering systems anyway. The key issue is to crush and destroy all hosting of pirated material, and leave private communication and freedom of speech alone.

There are those countries who do not like working in international cooperation and who turn a blinf eye to a lot of things, or maybe they just like censoring their internet more than actually stopping piracy. There are also hosts which may shut down your website for hosting .rar files, happened to some Strike Fighters modder.
Of course I agree with you but it can be hard to get that inside the brains of politicians and those who think stealing is an expression of freedom.

[R'as al Ghul]

They may want to use it as one, my point was just that they are not dependant on the existance of p2p networking and that some(not all!) who claim that may just be afraid they can't steal their software as easily anymore. I personally think they should keep the internet open and not censor any sites or traffic but then some third parties already do that themselves which resulted in me being unable to access google video in the first few months of it's existance or getting inflated prices and a germanized games lineup on Steam just because my IP can be identified as german.

First, copying is not stealing.
To confuse privacy concerns with the fear of not being able to share copyrighted material derides the effort of organisations like the Electronic Frontier Foundations and similar orgs.
An IP detection to keep an offer restricted to one country is not exactly censorship. Just use an US proxy and you'll get your videos. But if that already bothers you than I don't get your position in this discussion.

[Husar]

First, copying is not stealing.

You really need to read what I write in parentheses...

An IP detection to keep an offer restricted to one country is not exactly censorship. Just use an US proxy and you'll get your videos. But if that already bothers you than I don't get your position in this discussion.

No it isn't censorship, just discrimination. It's not like local stores work the same, maybe I took the whole talk about globalization too serious and should just be more nationalistic...
I also never actually bothered with proxies, guess I'd have to use that proxy everytime I access Steam then and besides they can also note your german credit card. It would have solved the video thing though I guess, not that it was really important anyway, just a minor inconvenience.

But then if you go down the route of proxies, why fear censorship? Just use a proxy in the US or learn how to hack your way through otherwise, it would be preposterous to say that people with no technical skill should have access to the internet.

[R'as al Ghul]

How about high resolution videos and legal downloads? I download demos for example and while a 56k connection could do it with a flatrate, it would take quite some time to finish if the demo is 2GB for example, I prefer to pay a bit more for my 6MBit line which downloads the demos quite a bit faster.
I also like to watch high-res videos from GameTrailers and they seeme to just about use my full bandwith, the cahing bar is usually just a little bit faster than the video plays so a good connection is useful for that. For the rest of the day I use it mostly to play, browse, chat or listen to internet radio which means it's hardly used to full extent, yet I think the 4EUR I pay for the bandwidth alone are not too much.

First of all, it's wrong to presume that all p2p downloads are illegal. You can watch Highres TV via p2p, the game demos and trailers I get via p2p. My point is that the main traffic on the web is from p2p. Here's a chart from a recent study:

Source: http://www.ipoque.de/media/internet_...net_study_2007

No, no and no.
I know for example that T-Online threw some people out a few years ago for using up their whole bandwidth all day long, I'm not saying I agree with it, I was just saying they do that. And noone can force them to expand anything as you pay for a maximum amount of bandwidth, if you get less out of it then that's your problem, if you want a bandwidth guarantee you have to pay more, like companies do, they pay a few hundred bucks per month extra to reserve a certain bandwidth which guarantees them that bandwidth because for them it's vital to have that guarantee. This guarantee does not exist for the normal home user however.

That's how I see it but then until lately some ISPs seemed to disagree.
This article is in German and from 2006 but although I haven't read it, it seems to adress the issue.

If you had read your link you'd know that the practise is not exactly legal. The providers mentioned there have to buy a volume from the owner of the carrier net, which is Telekom. Obviously they have miscalculated the volume needed because they attracted more Powerusers than expected. Then they try to get rid of those users by paying them for leaving. The practise has caught the attention of consumer groups and legal actions were taken iirc.
Let me ask you a question, how much can your provider reduce your bandwidth before you complain? If you pay for DSL 6000, is 64k okay with you? After all you've no guarantee.....

No it doesn't but it's also not normal, if you have a flatrate it's not like they're saving you any costs, in fact they break all your current connections which I wouldn't call normal at all. they just do it hoping that you won't be connected all day long if they do that.

I meant normal as in "common practise". I don't get your point about "saving costs".
The forced disconnect has two reasons: 1. to free a possibly unused IP and 2. to make it more difficult for people to run their own webserver.
You can set your router to disconnect and reconnect automatically and that way you lose perhaps 3 sec online time.