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Thread: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    I just started a hard/hard hungarian campaign using SS and I have huge loyalty problems with my generals. All of them gets the "unwatched by the king" vice and their loyalty quickly drops to 2 or 3!!!
    I never had loyalty problems in vanilla, I just do not accept low loyalty guys and one or two battles killing rebels can solve the problem for the rest. However, in SS this drop of loyalty is so fast and widespread that there is not enough opportunity to fight rebels, crusade or fight neighbours (esp that I am in peace with all my neighbours atm) to increase loyalty for all generals.
    So how else can you increase loyalty for generals in SS? Just sitting in a nice city does not seem to be enough.
    Also, I moved one of these guys into the same city with the King. He was with the king for 3 or 4 turn and he still had the "unwatched by the king" vice. How is that? For 3 years they eat at the same table and he still feels "unwatched"? How can you remove this vice?
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    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    If you're using 5.1 this can be a minor issue. Also consider the randomness of the game. Some of my most loyal generals are "unwatched by king" because I use them in battle so much. Make sure your monarch's authority remains high and keep the disloyal generals busy. There should be quote in a loading screen that states "when you have a camp divided, declare war." Keep building and growing. Play smart.


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  3. #3
    Member Member 5 Card Draw Champion, Mini Pool 2 Champion, Ice Hockey Champion, Mahjong Connect Champion Northnovas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    I have not notice that in my game at turn 61. However, I do not have many generals. I am no expert on the mechanics of the game but have you awarded them with titles or let them lead a battle? Sometimes sitting in a city and governing does not help if they are not fighting.

    Edit: Agree with above but I am only using 4.1
    Last edited by Northnovas; 01-11-2008 at 18:38.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    If you're using 5.1 this can be a minor issue. Also consider the randomness of the game. Some of my most loyal generals are "unwatched by king" because I use them in battle so much. Make sure your monarch's authority remains high and keep the disloyal generals busy.
    Yes, I am using 5.1 but I do not see any randomness in it. All of my generals has very low loyalty (except one who kept fighting for long vs the byzantines before we got peace).
    The authority is the other problem. I did everything that usually (in the vanilla game) increases authority. Expanded the kingdom, built alliances, playing a high-rep game, my generals led a succesful crusade but there is not a single point of increase of authority!!! What are you supposed to do to get high authority if all these things do not help a bit?!?!?
    Also, how can I keep them busy if I am in peace with all my neighbours? There are not enough rebels for that.
    Lional of Cornwall
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    Death before dishonour.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Northnovas
    I have not notice that in my game at turn 61. However, I do not have many generals. I am no expert on the mechanics of the game but have you awarded them with titles or let them lead a battle? Sometimes sitting in a city and governing does not help if they are not fighting.

    Edit: Agree with above but I am only using 4.1
    I prefer to have one general in each city to help city growth. Yes, sitting and governing does not help but there is not enough opportunities for fighting for all. So the question is that how do you improve loyalty other then fighting?
    How does the titles work? I have noticed that the general which captures a city gets the title "duke of this" or "count of that" but then I suppose you can transfer these titles, yes? Does it improve loyalty?
    Lional of Cornwall
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    Death before dishonour.

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    Member Member 5 Card Draw Champion, Mini Pool 2 Champion, Ice Hockey Champion, Mahjong Connect Champion Northnovas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheetah
    How does the titles work? I have noticed that the general which captures a city gets the title "duke of this" or "count of that" but then I suppose you can transfer these titles, yes? Does it improve loyalty?
    Yes the titles are transferable when the avatars are in the same location. Some titles will offer more loyalty or authority depending on the faction. If you receive something like Lord Steward that can be given to an avatar who needs help with the loyalty. I am not sure what the Hungarian faction has exactly for titles beyond settlements.
    I have also noticed that my reputation is low with factions I have little contact with but I do find contact and small gifts improve over time. Takes some work though.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    ive got a few generals with 'count of...' and such, but i didnt realise they could be given to other generals. how?
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    Member Member 5 Card Draw Champion, Mini Pool 2 Champion, Ice Hockey Champion, Mahjong Connect Champion Northnovas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    When both generals have to in the same stack. Bring up the general you want to remove the title, click on the icon, drag and drop down to the general you want to receive the new title.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    I have an idea. I played the campiagn a bit more and observed the corresponding virtue: "has the king's eye" (or something like this), which gives a loyalty increase. Basically the general has to visit the king as young as possible.
    Now, both the vice and the virtue seems to affect the general through his life. So generals with the vice will be losing loyalty regardless what you do with them after they got the vice, correspondingly, generals with the virtue will gain loyalty regardless what happens with them. So generals with the virtue now have loyalty of 8 or 9, generals with the vice dropped to 2 or 3.
    Bit harsh IMO.

    Also swapping titles did not help a bit. In fact it made the situation worse, as when you take away a title the ex-owner feels robbed (even if you give a new one instead) which gives further loyalty decrease.
    Lional of Cornwall
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    Death before dishonour.

    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

  10. #10
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    Not quite true (at least in 4.1). I had a general come of age with very nice stats, including some unusual religious traits. I trained him in the capital and he got the second level of the "king's eye" type trait. He was very loyal. I then shipped him off as the leader of a Crusade to Jerusalem with his brother. They captured Jerusalem, Acre, Tortosa, and Antioch and he was the governor of both Jerusalem and Acre. Over time, the "king's eye" trait went down in value and eventually went into loyalty-reducing anti-trait. Combined with the massive loyalty decrease from Jerusalem, he ended up rebelling on me at the worst possible moment and took one of my two good armies with him.


  11. #11
    Member Member Ferret's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    Yes I've found loyalty to be a major vice in SS. As the Faction Leader trait no longer gives generals authority then the starting King often gains the 'Offends the Nobility' trait and ends up having a civil war which is not fun right at the very start of the game, I'd rather it came much alter when I'm not hurredly trying to expand.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    I've suffered betrayals and desertions countless times on my English campaign, can't seem to figure out how to increase loyalty.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    What I do now (and not just in SS but in pro Deo et Rege, i.e. in all mods where you have this system), is to hold a "royal court" at the capital. I have the king and all the young (or not so young) nobles who has not got yet the "has the king's eye" trait. Once they got the virtue they are free to go, if they lose it they come back asap. The additional benefit yor the youngs that they get education at the court ("court education" virtue) which gives them increased management abilities. So depending on the size of the kingdom I can have quite a sizable royal court, for example in my russian campaign I have 6-8 generals sitting in Kiev waiting for their education to end.
    Lional of Cornwall
    proud member of the Round Table Knights
    ___________________________________
    Death before dishonour.

    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

  14. #14

    Default Re: Stainless Steal: loyalty problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheetah
    What I do now (and not just in SS but in pro Deo et Rege, i.e. in all mods where you have this system), is to hold a "royal court" at the capital. I have the king and all the young (or not so young) nobles who has not got yet the "has the king's eye" trait. Once they got the virtue they are free to go, if they lose it they come back asap. The additional benefit yor the youngs that they get education at the court ("court education" virtue) which gives them increased management abilities. So depending on the size of the kingdom I can have quite a sizable royal court, for example in my russian campaign I have 6-8 generals sitting in Kiev waiting for their education to end.
    That's a strange but brilliant and realistic idea of doing it, I've never thought of anything like that before, I should try it. But it's mainly the captains I have trouble with, how can I ever get them to stay by my side?

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