Welcome to the Genocide Club

[LittleGrizzly]

You are still allowed to teach British history in schools, but only if you make it clear the British were always wrong.

When I was doing GCSE History only 6 years ago this was not true, we covered the slave trade, the two world wars (build up and after effects) and the JFK assasinaton.

Britian has plenty of bad things said about it but good things to, we shipped the slaves over and sold them off but we then abolished the practice. The common theme seemed to be the truth whether it made britian look good or bad.

[Petrus]

Of course the Brits perpetrated genocides during their history. After all, we do know that they are used to eat children.

But i think the genocide term is a bit overused. Colonization and military conquests are based upon the submission of the local populations through violence.

This caused massive civilans massacres all along history but the objective was not to anihilate populations, only to force them into submission, military campaigns to cause terror and remove even the slightest bit of rebellious spirit : cadavers do not work into the fields.

Of course, this does not change the factual evidence of british natural genociders tendancies.

[Justiciar]

Quite so. I brutally massacred a small community of slugs earlier today. Good times.

[Beefy187]

If you hate genociding then everyone can convert to buddhism... Which is not gonna happen is it?

Some more example of genociding

Japan while in Korea
Russians killing Jews
French killing French (French revolution)
Persian killing Greeks (SPARTA!!)

[TevashSzat]

Japan while in Korea

This is something that has always irked me. You put Genocide and WWII in the same sentence and the first thing everyone think of is Hitler + Holocaust.

Japan and WWII? Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima/Nagasaki

What people never remember is how many Chinese civilians died during WWII due to the Japanese.

Total Chinese civilian deaths are estimated at around 16-17million I believe. Although many were due to being caught to the crossfire, the Japanese strategy right before 1940(I think) basically had them killing everyone, looting everything, and burning everything.

Furthermore, Japanese history taught in Japan often uses textbooks that just coincidentally forgets such facts or just glances over them which should have but did not create international outrage.

This topic is still remembered in China by alot of people and partly accounts for the not overly friendly Chinese/Japanese diplomatic relations

[Papewaio]

Nan jing... 'nuff said.

[Beefy187]

Dont know how its done in Japanese history lessons because I moved from Japan before I had the chance to learn history.

Issue in Japan is extremely low nationalism due to loss of WW2 and storys about how bad our ancesters were. Several books and movies came out which gives alternative view point that Japan back then werent evil overlord but im guessing most Japanese people are constantly taught that Japan are bad. I heard several schools makes their students go to Korea (dont know about China) and makes them apologize (Which I dont think is particulary fabulous idea) So you can hardly say the history book makes them forget about it.

Now the big secret.. I am also half chinese so im not completely going to defend Japan. But firstly every country who participated in WW2 did something quite similar. So I guess no body can just blame Hitler, Japan and Mussoulini for all the tragedy in WW2.

(I read this in some book.. So I could be wrong)
The casualty in China was incredibly high for several reason. One for the guerilla tactic that Chinese army used. Second because Chinese army didnt use uniform. And third because China was having a civil war at the same time (National party vs Communist) So cant blame Japan only for all the casualties.

Also lot of events such as Rape of Nanjing are still debated whether it really took place or not. Strictly speaking Japan never even declared war on modern day China (communist government) but only on modern day Taiwan (Nationalist government) and communist government tend to blame others for their tragic situation.

Again im not justifying everysingle action that the Japanese did so dont turn this in to massive hate beefy and the Japs thread.

[InsaneApache]

I don't think that Great Britain practised genocide as a policy. After all the empire was born out of trade and domination of markets, mainly to keep the French in check.

Having said that, my grandad, who was in the British Army in India, always said that we (British) were not the benign paternalists depicted in newsreels etc.

However, we redeemed ourselves in 1939-45, when for nearly 18 months we stood alone in Europe against the Nazi menace (Godwin notwithstanding), otherwise you'd all be speaking German. *

*Unless you are a German of course

[Mete Han]

Issue in Japan is extremely low nationalism due to loss of WW2 and storys about how bad our ancesters were. Several books and movies came out which gives alternative view point that Japan back then werent evil overlord but im guessing most Japanese people are constantly taught that Japan are bad. I heard several schools makes their students go to Korea (dont know about China) and makes them apologize (Which I dont think is particulary fabulous idea) So you can hardly say the history book makes them forget about it.

Well the fact of the matter is if the Axis forces won the WWII then it would be United States apologizing for what they did in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Japan was pasifized by the Allies after the war for creating a new market and establishing a solid frontier against communism (like Germany). The Germans and Japanese as far as I see it hate their ancestors because the Allies had a lot to say about the defeated nations eduacation policies and what not. I mean Germans and Japanese shouldn't be embarrased of their ancestors because Allies were as bad. Whole towns were destroyed in Europe because of carpet bombing for just destroying a few factories. On the other hand I think what the Germans did to Jews is terrible and totally unacceptable but the Pope and all the others just looked the other way. If one is to apologize then we should all be embarrassed and apologize actually, not only the Germans and Japanese. It is in our blood, unfortuantely...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Furthermore, Japanese history taught in Japan often uses textbooks that just coincidentally forgets such facts or just glances over them which should have but did not create international outrage.

Trust me, it happens everywhere. All nations, to a certain extent, try to cover up their crimes from WWII. It's not quite as bad here, but reading the textbook for high school history in Canada was really quite amusing. There were four or so full pages on the London Blitz, and none on Dresden, Chemnitz, and Hamburg. The Eastern Front is also conveniently left out, which leads most of the students I talked to to believe that the Soviets were merely a thorn in the side of Germany, and the Allies really did all the work.

[MiniMe]

Russians killing Jews

Not quite so.
If you were referring to Ze Good Old Days of Tsarist Russia, it would be unwise not to mention where exactly the Pogroms took place and our good Ukrainian brethren.
If you were referring to the Ze Revolution or Ze Good Old Days of Stalin Regime, well... everybody killed everybody, not that we cared whom to kill. Russians, jews, poles, balts, mountain and asian dwellers... all of us gladly took their part in it on the both sides of it, no innocent person or tribe left

Sidenote: me have russian, ukrainian, georgian and jewish blood in my veins and accusing me in defending russians against the rest would be ridiculous.

Persian killing Greeks (SPARTA!!)

do you actually know how that little war started with? ever heard about persian city named Sardis and its barbequed inhabitants?

[Beefy187]

Not quite so.
If you were referring to Ze Good Old Days of Tsarist Russia, it would be unwise not to mention where exactly the Pogroms took place and our good Ukrainian brethren.
If you were referring to the Ze Revolution or Ze Good Old Days of Stalin Regime, well... everybody killed everybody, not that we cared whom to kill. Russians, jews, poles, balts, mountain and asian dwellers... all of us gladly took their part in it on the both sides of it, no innocent person or tribe left

Sidenote: me have russian, ukrainian, georgian and jewish blood in my veins and accusing me in defending russians against the rest would be ridiculous.


do you actually know how that little war started with? ever heard about persian city named Sardis and its barbequed inhabitants?

I was reffering to the Tsarist Russia.

If you dont mind could you tell me what happened in Sardis?

[MiniMe]

Well, the The Sack of Sardis was the prime cause of Greco Persian Wars that began as persian punitive raid.

It is actually very annoying that nobody when they speak of those wars, cares to mention that:
1. Ionian greeks never were Persian conquest target. Persians got Ionians (and the future troubles) for free after they've repelled Lydyan attack and subdued those who's been Ionian masters;
2. Persian punitive raid was successful. Athens were sacked. Twice, methinx.
3. Greek hoplites were heavy infantry. Having a heavy infantry status in ancient greek city-states meant you are from the rich class of slave-owners. And to defend yours freedom and civil rights at those times also meant to defend yours slave-ownership.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

If you were referring to the Ze Revolution or Ze Good Old Days of Stalin Regime, well... everybody killed everybody, not that we cared whom to kill. Russians, jews, poles, balts, mountain and asian dwellers... all of us gladly took their part in it on the both sides of it, no innocent person or tribe left

Indeed. At one point, 10% of the Russian population had been arrested.