Grey and brown and in between

[chairman]

Hey just a question here. I looked on the EB site at faction unit lists, and it seems that all thureophoroi and thorakitai are dressed in rather drab colors. As compared even to some of the levy troops, these two types of soldier appear to all be dressed in dull shades of grey, brown and in between. I was just wondering what is the reasoning behind this convention. I'm not criticising, I'm just curious. Thanks in advance.

Chairman

[Megas Methuselah]

Dyes for clothing were expensive. The drab colours are undyed clothing.

[PershsNhpios]

I'm not sure, Chairman.. (?) , if you are still playing the original Rome: Total War, however what you describe of the unit colours here sounds dissimilar to what is shown in-game.
Delightful colours and art is certainly not the object of this game, but I can tell you as a witness that even the Celts, who dress in all the drabbiest rags and most appalling fashions make a beautiful array with their standards and tartans on the field.
The balkan factions, and those that begin further south amidst the Pindos Oros, are perhaps some of the least drab when you have the chance to view them.

Compliments must be given to the shield decorations and the many banners, also the design and dress of the Generals and captains themselves, are far more colourful yet less Cartoonistic than what is portrayed in the old version.
If you are worried about the appearance of the units, and there are many, many units in EB, then abolish your fears - they are the most detailed and characterised in any community.

[Megas Methuselah]

Don't be scared to play EB. When I started my first EB campaign, a new star appeared in the heavens...

[chairman]

What I mean is that while different factions have different colors and amounts of color for similar units, the thureophoroi and thorakitai have almost the same colors for each faction that has access to them. And the drabness isn't just clothing but also (and especially) the shields. Hoplitai, Pezhetairoi, Peltastai, Klerouchoi Phalangatai, Elite Phalanxes, Eastern light troop varieties, and most celtic troops all have brightly colored shields and equipment. But the most colorful that thur. or thor. get is a yellowish shield for Makedonian thureophoroi and a maroon tunic for Seleucid thorakitai. White, grey or dust colored shields seem to be the norm for these soldiers. This seems counter-intuitive for troops that in some cases might be classed as sub-elites. The lack of variety in color goes beyond the normal period expensiveness of color dyes. And I am not comparing with garish and gag-worthy units from vanilla .

Chairman

[pezhetairoi]

Well, I suppose there's only so much variation you can have when the dyes you had in those days were limited. I'd actually rather have the Greek troops looking drab dangerous grey and white than the garish blue and red pain-on-the-eyes KH peltastai design, which makes a monstrous contrast to the other Hellenic troops.

[MeinPanzer]

Well, I suppose there's only so much variation you can have when the dyes you had in those days were limited. I'd actually rather have the Greek troops looking drab dangerous grey and white than the garish blue and red pain-on-the-eyes KH peltastai design, which makes a monstrous contrast to the other Hellenic troops.

What little evidence we have for thureophoroi points to strong colours for clothing and equipment, though, which was the norm for Hellenistic soldiers.

[PershsNhpios]

To me, all designs are quite perfect, and I cannot say, nor care if they are realistic either - though I'm convinced they are.
The units are so various, all of them quite well skinned, and coloured enough, that when you have conquered past your influence, as I have with the Getai - and you encounter a new culture, it makes for a very interesting display on the battlefield.
The only units I would deduct as drab, are the Psiloi, and other peasant-class infantry - who should rightfully be drab.

I have not found the units mentioned here to be drab at all, and you are commenting from the unit list on the homepage - have you played this game Chairman?
When I view my units, I don't look for eye-catching colour and shine, but the appearance of soldiers, real men, which EB certainly manages to, 'skin', on the battlefield - I think by making the complexion of all things darker and dirtier.

[pezhetairoi]

@MeinPanzer

Interesting to know that. Which book did you learn that from? There's a dearth of good Hellenistic-army sourcebooks here in Asia. Most of them are pretty much the Osprey books which are way too expensive for their size, with things like Holland's Persian Fire and Salamis, and the run-of-the-mill stuff. Good ones are only found in the more exclusive libraries... Any reading material you could suggest that's tailored to the Chremonidean-era Greeks?

[MeinPanzer]

@MeinPanzer

Interesting to know that. Which book did you learn that from? There's a dearth of good Hellenistic-army sourcebooks here in Asia. Most of them are pretty much the Osprey books which are way too expensive for their size, with things like Holland's Persian Fire and Salamis, and the run-of-the-mill stuff. Good ones are only found in the more exclusive libraries... Any reading material you could suggest that's tailored to the Chremonidean-era Greeks?

I was referring to thureophoroi in the broadest sense, incorporating Hellenistic sources from Epirus to Bactria. The best sources for colours for thureophoroi are terracotta figurines, for which we have examples bearing colour from the Bosporus, Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, Egypt and Greece. There are also a few other sources which are mostly frescoes and painted funerary stelae.

For Greeks, I unfortunately only know of coloured votive models of thureoi (most notably quite a few found in a tomb in Eritrea) and not models of thureophoroi themselves. All the iconographic depictions of thureoi from Greece that I know of date to the second half of the 3rd C. BC or later, so unfortunately nothing directly related to the Chremonidean war.

[pezhetairoi]

:( Ah well.

It must've been quite the riot on the battlefield, then, rather than the drab uniform-like monotony movies always ancient battles look like.