Favorite tactics

[Spartan198]

What about the numerous swarms tactic. Its a ideal favourite for lazy people like myself.
Get tons of barbarian warband in loose faormation and charge around screaming like headless chickens.
Works for me when i'm barbarians. I conquered rome.

That tactic does work,but it works best when the enemy's disorderly and especially when used with Axemen.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

That tactic does work,but it works best when the enemy's disorderly and especially when used with Axemen.

Going slightly off topic here, what is people's general opinion of Germanic (Germania, Dacia and Scythia) Axemen vs Celtic (Gaul and Brittania) Swordsmen overall?

I've always felt that Swordsmen were better at absorbing ranged missiles, while Axemen appeared better in melee - especially against armoured opponents.

I've always been favoured towards axemen for some reason. Although they are more lightly armoured, and statistically appear less powerful, their armour piecing bonus gives them an edge over such opponents. This is particularly important against the might of Roman legionaries should they come into contact with such foes.

They also seem to have a bigger charge bonus than swordsmen, giving them more potential to be used as shock troops to route a wavering foe.

[Spartan198]

Going slightly off topic here, what is people's general opinion of Germanic (Germania, Dacia and Scythia) Axemen vs Celtic (Gaul and Brittania) Swordsmen overall?

I've always felt that Swordsmen were better at absorbing ranged missiles, while Axemen appeared better in melee - especially against armoured opponents.

I've always been favoured towards axemen for some reason. Although they are more lightly armoured, and statistically appear less powerful, their armour piecing bonus gives them an edge over such opponents. This is particularly important against the might of Roman legionaries should they come into contact with such foes.

They also seem to have a bigger charge bonus than swordsmen, giving them more potential to be used as shock troops to route a wavering foe.

Personally,I prefer the Germanic Axemen over Celtic swordsmen. Adequate missile defense is good to have,but when you get right down to it,it's the meeting of the blade in close-combat that wins the battle. I make great use out of archers and the like,but I've never won a large-scale battle with missile troops alone.

Axemen over Swordsmen in my barbarian armies.

Edit: Hey,my Diadochi banner works now! (Immitating Cartman) Sweeeeet!

[Emperor Mithdrates]

Personally,I prefer the Germanic Axemen over Celtic swordsmen. Adequate missile defense is good to have,but when you get right down to it,it's the meeting of the blade in close-combat that wins the battle. I make great use out of archers and the like,but I've never won a large-scale battle with missile troops alone.

Neither have I but I have this gr8 tactic i forgot to mention. I told my friends and they loved, i managed to destroy the western roman empire leaders army with it on BI.

I put my vandal chosen swordsmen at one end of a bridge in a perfect hold ground stance. the romans stormed across the bridge to get them.
Then i sent my other section of swordsmen to swim over the river and cut off the far end of the bridge, it worked and they were trapped like rats. After that my 10 archer units finished them off. I killed everyone cos they couldnt retreat.

[Spartan198]

Neither have I but I have this gr8 tactic i forgot to mention. I told my friends and they loved, i managed to destroy the western roman empire leaders army with it on BI.

I put my vandal chosen swordsmen at one end of a bridge in a perfect hold ground stance. the romans stormed across the bridge to get them.
Then i sent my other section of swordsmen to swim over the river and cut off the far end of the bridge, it worked and they were trapped like rats. After that my 10 archer units finished them off. I killed everyone cos they couldnt retreat.

I use that one,too! Simple,bloody,and effective.

Great minds think alike.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

I use that one,too! Simple,bloody,and effective.

Great minds think alike.

Touche, my friend.


O.of.A

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Neither have I but I have this gr8 tactic i forgot to mention. I told my friends and they loved, i managed to destroy the western roman empire leaders army with it on BI.

I put my vandal chosen swordsmen at one end of a bridge in a perfect hold ground stance. the romans stormed across the bridge to get them.
Then i sent my other section of swordsmen to swim over the river and cut off the far end of the bridge, it worked and they were trapped like rats. After that my 10 archer units finished them off. I killed everyone cos they couldnt retreat.

A similar tactic can also be used in R:TW - even without the "swim" ability.

In R:TW, there often is a shallow point in the river which units can cross at slightly up/down stream from the bridge. Unlike in BI though, anything, light or heavy, can cross there and flank the attacking foes.

I always send cavalry round of some sort. Its a very effective tactic in routing attackers or trapping them on the bridge so you can gain the pleasure of completely wiping out the opposition.

Using it is a bit of an exploit though, the AI is not aware of its existence so never actually uses it.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

A similar tactic can also be used in R:TW - even without the "swim" ability.

In R:TW, there often is a shallow point in the river which units can cross at slightly up/down stream from the bridge. Unlike in BI though, anything, light or heavy, can cross there and flank the attacking foes.

Interesting.
I'll look out for that.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

A similar tactic can also be used in R:TW - even without the "swim" ability.

In R:TW, there often is a shallow point in the river which units can cross at slightly up/down stream from the bridge. Unlike in BI though, anything, light or heavy, can cross there and flank the attacking foes.

I always send cavalry round of some sort. Its a very effective tactic in routing attackers or trapping them on the bridge so you can gain the pleasure of completely wiping out the opposition.

Using it is a bit of an exploit though, the AI is not aware of its existence so never actually uses it.

First time I noticed it I played with seleucians and divided my forces in to two only to find out that enemy attacked only the bridge .. almost lost that battle ..
later i have used it many times .. especially when I am out numbered and do not have heavy infantry to hold the bridge .. just sending the cavalry using the swallow point to attack the enemy from behind will soon create mass route and victory
this is also my fool proof strategy to destroy the senate army near rome no mather who I play

[Quirinus]

Using it is a bit of an exploit though, the AI is not aware of its existence so never actually uses it.

I was not aware of its existence either! I shall watch out for that the next time I play a bridge battle. You have no idea how much that knowledge would have helped me....

[salemty]

I have a question, people seem to really like the pre marius 3 line formation with hastati first line principes second and triarii third. i dont understand were u would use this formation though. for example the enemy has more troops than you u cant use this formation becuase your units will be flanked. if he has less why not just surround him with your troops. Can someone plz tell me in what situation you would use the 3 line formation in!

[Quirinus]

Hmm... I don't, at least. I like to keep some units in reserve so that they can charge into the melee at a critical moment, stamina fresh. But the three-line formation is another thing altogether. I don't really know, but I think the people who use the three-line formation use it for maximum historical accuracy.

If I have all three classes of Roman infantry on the field, I would put the triarii at the edges, to anticipate cavalry charges at the flank, and so that as the triarii beats back the enemy troops, they can wheel around to outflank the enemy line. The hastati and principes I'd put in an alternating pattern: hastati, principes, hastati, principes and so forth.

[Brave]

I find that the historical tactics work well, you know the classics, Hammer and Anvil et al.

[shlin28]

I usually put my infantry in two lines in the middle, and all the cavalry one side, and all the skirmishers (peltasts, velites and anything mercenary that can throw something) on the other side. In all the games I have played, I have never been successfully flanked when I used this method, the large group of cavalry can smash any flanking force to pieces (and can flank the enemy too!) whilst the light infantry on the other side can throw spears and generally weaken the enemy, before charging the weakened force (and if there are no enemy flankers, I used the light infantry to flank them too. Two flanking forces = insta-heroic victory)

[Permenion]

I have a question, people seem to really like the pre marius 3 line formation with hastati first line principes second and triarii third. i dont understand were u would use this formation though. for example the enemy has more troops than you u cant use this formation becuase your units will be flanked. if he has less why not just surround him with your troops. Can someone plz tell me in what situation you would use the 3 line formation in!

If the enemy has more troops (and this is what i do), to prevent them from attacking your flanks

.................... P......P......P...................
..............H...........H............H..............
.....................V......V......V................
..............E E ..............G......................

(with the left hastati a bit inclined to the left and the other one to the right)
Or you can switch the hastati with the principes, but principes are stronger in defence, what makes them better to take charges... (I know this formation is historically uncorrect ) . I always put the Velites (and sometimes just spear throwing infantry like hastati) behind so they can keep on throwing while enemy is attacking the frontline. Cavalry behind for charges and prevent cavalry attacks from behind. I think you should perhaps add at least one triarii unit as support.

Note: For defending a city : (and i guarantee you this always works :D) when the enemy have to many rams to breach the wooden wall, i just put all my troops in the middle of the city, blocking the onlt 2-3 ways to get to the middle: spear infantry is very useful in this tactic

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Note: For defending a city : (and i guarantee you this always works :D) when the enemy have to many rams to breach the wooden wall, i just put all my troops in the middle of the city, blocking the onlt 2-3 ways to get to the middle: spear infantry is very useful in this tactic

Phalanx units are even better

[Spartan198]

Phalanx units are even better

You took the words right out of my mouth!

[Permenion]

Phalanx units are even better

Of course, but in salemty 's case, we're talking about Romans or Barbarians...
They don't have phalanx units there (or do they?) except some mercenaries.

[RLucid]

I have a question, people seem to really like the pre marius 3 line formation with hastati first line principes second and triarii third. i dont understand were u would use this formation though. for example the enemy has more troops than you u cant use this formation becuase your units will be flanked. if he has less why not just surround him with your troops. Can someone plz tell me in what situation you would use the 3 line formation in!

The key is a mobile and flexible response. I've tried to learn, decisive battles attempting to set up conditions on strategic map, for a battle of annihilation, against AI which isn't planning on "running" as it's not against superior forces.

For Maneuver, you need space, and that means "air" not an unbroken phalanx style line. That lets you get your spearmen to counter attack or intercept cavalry, get the missiles into a concentrated effective fire, and have the potential of maneuver, or reinforcing spots, or even charging with the general into a flank of a "wrapping around" unit.

In ancient battles, a phalanx couldn't maneuver much once formed up, it took a long time (hence skirmishers duelling for hours whilst the Hoplites put on their armour and shields). In one battle 2 Spartan leaders refused to move when ordered by general to move from right to left flank, as they feared the disorganisation of the maneuver. Battle lost as they were hitting air, and the left flank got turned (as tended to happen) in Phalanx v Phalanx conflicts.

Except in Prologue (where they give you a balanced army to start with), I rarely am able to field an actual Velites, Hastati, Principes, Triarii formation. But I have found, my preferred deployment against the foes such maniples would face, spear warbands, samnites, light barb cavalry and some heavy noble cavalry is historically based.

On some occasions, I've repeated a battle where a shallower formation has got into difficulties, against Cavalry or Chariots and discovered that the dense-mass is more resilient. It slows and stops holding opponents forces, giving time for the pila storm to have more effect. The Roman troops are trained to turn to side on flanks so getting flanked is not fatal (so long as you can counter cavalry with spearmen) and the next line, can counter-attack the exposed flank of the less disciplined opponents, who WILL be severely disadvantaged.

Velites out in front take some FLAK in many posts, but I noticed a Gaulish army with 5 skirmisher war bands, and 5 spear warbands plus general cav, is a far tougher opponent, than the AI's double line of 5 x 2 Spear warbands plus Cav (best if you can get at the skirmishers with superior cavlary, or get them to waste their ammo). So I persevered and I try and put them, out in front, where they can dodge thrown javelins which wastes oppositions ammunition, and also signals right moment to counter-charge with the Hastati. To avoid crowding problems it's vital not to form an unbroken line, but use the chequer board and frequently squarer formations than the default layout.

Then because you can't afford to "waste" triarii, Town Watch (or other cheap light spearmen) can buffer the Heavy Cavalry charges, allowing any Trarii, or Barb mercenaries and 2nd Line Hastati (ought to be Principes) to counter-attack effectively with a charge advantage.

In some battles, I replayed experimenting with deeper deployment (opponents with lots of cavalry plus chariots who chew up a shallow wing). Not nice, but frankly Town Watch and Velites are more "expendable" than Hastati; if they get caught and take a mauling it's cheap to replace, but they stop the momentum of the opponents, and allow most of the army to unleash an overwhelming counter attack.

Other times, it's all light fire and maneuver tactics, to chew up phalanx based armies, like German Spear Warband, who'd be rather formidable against Heavy Infrantry, but are too slow without decent cavalry cover to not be crushed by the apparently frail Light Infantry plus Cavalry combo.


Not read whole thread, but you might like to experiment with a hidden "refused " flank formation, which is good to hide scarily strong forces. Buys time to absolutely annihilate a barbarian force, and bag the all important general. If you just line up, they make you attack and are likely to be able to withdraw in better order from battle field (especially if there's woods to make pursuit harder).

Semi-Hidden Refused right-flank

H
H H V__
W A tH tH V
C G T I IW

H - Hastati, V_ default spread out Velites, V block Velites, W - warband, A - Archers. t - Town Watch

C - Light Cavalry (Equties or Barb Merc), G - General HC, T - Triarii. I - Illyrian Javellin skirmishers.

The idea of this, is to screen off much of forces, and allow the Velites channels to retreat. The right flank refuses contact against the line, which allows the semi-concealed power of the Warband to sneak behind a light cavalry screen, to flank. Depending on composition of forces the strong side may be columns, rather than extra lines.

The apparent retreat, sucks in opposition frontline, who think they're winning, but then face an extremely heavy storm of pila and javelins. The Archers also get to fire obliquely into unshielded right flank of charging opponents.

Note how the Triarii in such a formation (and the General) are actually near to every point of the real line, so you have "interior lines" of communication, with the fast light warband + cavalry able to flank. Much of the Hastati pila fire is more effective than usual to, because it's thrown from a flanking oposition.

That means you can concentrate intense missile attack, a counter-charge, plus a line of fresh reserve forces to exploit the shaken barbarian opponents.

In some battles, it's quite amusing when a flanking attack by a feeble weak unit like town watch, or simply the unexpected warcry of the 3rd line of a warband hidden behind the 2nd line, that triggers the rout, when acting at the decisive moment.


Experiment with some plans, drawing impetuous light cavalry onto a screened 3rd line of spearmen for instance, by feigned retreat.

I suspect that an army like the Gauls in RTW, expects to rush and charge, and doesn't have the stamina to fight for long. Therefore, with a deeper formation, there's more time for missile fire to inflict casualties; and the troops fatigue, even if they're not directly in combat.

So long as there's Cavalry, one routing unit on the main line signals a mass panic as, every unit knows what the result will be if they dally on the battlefield.

The game behaviour is not unreasonable, the barbs are often somewhat tired to start with after a long charge, and know if they can't sweep away the opposition in a rush, that they're likely to be on wrong end of a massacre.

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

I tried to do some of your circular formations, but my men were cut down before the could get there, and p.s, why do all your phalanxes have the peasant symbols???

[TruePraetorian]

Here are the historically accurate formations I was talking about:



Here is the Hastati forming the un-broken line after the Leves retreat:



When the Hastati get to the "winded" state, which takes forever, or the morale gets to the "shaken" state, which happens more often, I charge the princepes (still 8 ranks deep). At the same time, I turn Guard mode off for the Hastati and move them into "8 ranks deep", or however many ranks they can muster. Princepes are then made into a single line while the hastati retreat to where the Princepes were originally.

This formation is Camillan Era, Polybian is the same except without the Accensi and Rorarii. When it gets to the Marian and Imperial reforms I use the other historic formation.

[Motep]

I tried to do some of your circular formations, but my men were cut down before the could get there, and p.s, why do all your phalanxes have the peasant symbols???

Do it in the prebattle phase, before you actually click the "start battle" button. Let them come to you. If you have to move them, ctrl a them, and make sure the enemy is far away. they should move to the location and keep their formation once they set up.

They have peasant symbols because I was modding with some new skins and horses, and was too lazy to give unit cards. If it helps, I can use regular units to make it easier for you to see my setup.