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Thread: An funny thing happened on my way to the Holy Land

  1. #1

    Default An funny thing happened on my way to the Holy Land

    I was invaded. Let me give you a bit of background. Im playing as England, Easy/Moderate setting (its my first go). It was about 1190 and I had refrained from taking a lot of territory opting to primarily crusade and take up a stronghold in the Holy Land and reinforce, then expand from there. I have England, Wales, Scotland, Western France, Norway, Sweeden, and Denmark? all to myself. I had been having difficulties securing Antioch (2 crusades have failed after a few years of holding the province), but I managed on my last crusade to hold it down. So, I decided to use a cannon for a fly swatter and sent a Four Thousand man crusade to Edessa with plans to take Syria, Tripoli, and Palestine. Slam dunk right?

    Half-way to the holy land, the Holy Roman Empire decided it was the opportune time to invade England (we had such a nice history together). Unbeknownst to me While I was messin with my crusade, they were taking out my sea lanes. When I ended the year, I was shocked to find out the HRE had done a three way invasion. They landed two 3 star generals and a thousand troops in Flanders (I think thats the territory that links France to Wessex), a 4 star general with five hundred troops landed in Ireland, and to top it off, their emperor himself decided he'd like to park a thousand troops off in Mercia. Needless to say, I freaked out.

    Since I had to go rip sh** riot in the holy land, my armies were depleated. Mercia was the best off but I lost it, my generals didnt have the experience to face the Emperor himself. Ireland fell...barely, it was almost a draw. However, I had my eye on the shifty germans in France most of the game so I had plenty of forces to scare the HRE right out of Flanders...which was the only way I had to get troops into Wessex for a counter against Mercia. Ireland could wait.

    30 years later, My empire has been restored, my Four thousand man crusade has taken the holy land and all of Byzantium. Now the HRE is lookin at four thousand availible troops on their West side in France and four thousand troops on their East in Constantinople. Both of my armies are eager to meet up with their brothers...that outta learn 'em.


    Moral of the Story? This game rocks, the AI is actually intelligent, and never underestimate an ally stabbing you in the back.

  2. #2
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: An funny thing happened on my way to the Holy Land

    Welcome to the Org, ThePainkiller! Glad you're enjoying the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThePainkiller
    Moral of the Story? This game rocks, the AI is actually intelligent, and never underestimate an ally stabbing you in the back.
    Indeed. MTW teaches that lesson very well.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  3. #3

    Default Re: An funny thing happened on my way to the Holy Land

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePainkiller
    I was invaded. Let me give you a bit of background. Im playing as England, Easy/Moderate setting (its my first go). It was about 1190 and I had refrained from taking a lot of territory opting to primarily crusade and take up a stronghold in the Holy Land and reinforce, then expand from there. I have England, Wales, Scotland, Western France, Norway, Sweeden, and Denmark? all to myself. I had been having difficulties securing Antioch (2 crusades have failed after a few years of holding the province), but I managed on my last crusade to hold it down. So, I decided to use a cannon for a fly swatter and sent a Four Thousand man crusade to Edessa with plans to take Syria, Tripoli, and Palestine. Slam dunk right?

    Half-way to the holy land, the Holy Roman Empire decided it was the opportune time to invade England (we had such a nice history together). Unbeknownst to me While I was messin with my crusade, they were taking out my sea lanes. When I ended the year, I was shocked to find out the HRE had done a three way invasion. They landed two 3 star generals and a thousand troops in Flanders (I think thats the territory that links France to Wessex), a 4 star general with five hundred troops landed in Ireland, and to top it off, their emperor himself decided he'd like to park a thousand troops off in Mercia. Needless to say, I freaked out.

    Since I had to go rip sh** riot in the holy land, my armies were depleated. Mercia was the best off but I lost it, my generals didnt have the experience to face the Emperor himself. Ireland fell...barely, it was almost a draw. However, I had my eye on the shifty germans in France most of the game so I had plenty of forces to scare the HRE right out of Flanders...which was the only way I had to get troops into Wessex for a counter against Mercia. Ireland could wait.

    30 years later, My empire has been restored, my Four thousand man crusade has taken the holy land and all of Byzantium. Now the HRE is lookin at four thousand availible troops on their West side in France and four thousand troops on their East in Constantinople. Both of my armies are eager to meet up with their brothers...that outta learn 'em.


    Moral of the Story? This game rocks, the AI is actually intelligent, and never underestimate an ally stabbing you in the back.
    You are quite correct...as you can see in my post history, I still consider MTW the pinnacle of the total war games as far as real strategy and AI go...as far as "global" politics in game and even a bit more on the battlefield.

    It's just...more of a simulation of "war" than simply a game. You deal with similar logistical/strategical situations reflected in history at times, due in part to this cunning AI...you actually have real 'enemies' to watch out for...not just steamroll.

    As far as what you're talking about- In my mind, in total war games across the board (this has remained constant and will in Empires as well...but as with everything, emphasized more in MTW) balancing your economy and balancing your armies is probably the most challanging aspect of the game.

    This is reflected in history as well...but victories on the battlefield make empire management harder and harder. The larger your empire, the more to protect etc.

    Unfortunately, there wasn't in pre-modern history, nor is there ever really in MTW, a time where you can freely wage war without rendering your lands vulnerable to a good extent.

    The financial stretch is just exponentially worse...

    IMO- When you wind up in the situation you were in, simply trying to "maintain" back home is your best bet, while waging a war of attrition against the enemy, realizing that they are also experiencing their own vulnerabilities due to launching an attack.

    If you launch a campaign, only to be surprise attacked later like this...you really need to calculate whether or not you should redirect your initial attack to turn back home and seal the deal there...

    Usually however, your army may be too late to stop what you're redirecting them to prevent in the first place and winds up "caught in the switches" moving back and forth between destinations...which is the worst case scenario (it's costing a fortune).

    This really is though, one of the more challenging aspects of a war strategically. Look back at even WW1 and WW2. The Central Powers and then Nazi Germany just couldn't handle a 2 front war over time.

    The whole balance of knowing when to recruit, how to form armies, and where to move/position them is one of the more complicated sciences...

  4. #4
    Minion of Zoltan Member Roark's Avatar
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    Default Re: An funny thing happened on my way to the Holy Land

    Hypothetical, guys:

    This is totally cheesy tactic but, if Painkiller didn't have enough troops at home and had voluntarily destroyed his own Chapter House, would the Crusade instantly "fail" and the crusade troops be transported home to England?

    I seem to remember a certain situation in which crusade troops are transported back to their originating province...

    Maybe I'm wrong.

  5. #5
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: An funny thing happened on my way to the Holy Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Roark
    Hypothetical, guys:

    This is totally cheesy tactic but, if Painkiller didn't have enough troops at home and had voluntarily destroyed his own Chapter House, would the Crusade instantly "fail" and the crusade troops be transported home to England?

    I seem to remember a certain situation in which crusade troops are transported back to their originating province...

    Maybe I'm wrong.
    I honestly have no idea. I've never been crazy enough to try it.

    I don't know that it would be worth the risk in any case, however. Depending on one's overall strategic situation, the loss of Influence from the then-failed Crusade might be enough to instigate civil war.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member Jxrc's Avatar
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    Default Re: An funny thing happened on my way to the Holy Land

    Quote Originally Posted by Roark
    Hypothetical, guys:

    This is totally cheesy tactic but, if Painkiller didn't have enough troops at home and had voluntarily destroyed his own Chapter House, would the Crusade instantly "fail" and the crusade troops be transported home to England?

    I seem to remember a certain situation in which crusade troops are transported back to their originating province...

    Maybe I'm wrong.
    That would be a riksy move but if you can cpe with the loss of influence why not ...

    Destroying the chapter house should do the trick. Never did it willingly but once I had three crusades markers waiting in Normandy and a bloody earthquake destroyed the chapter house .... One failed crusade each turn for three turns ... I will let you guess what happened

  7. #7
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: An funny thing happened on my way to the Holy Land

    Destroying the chapter house should do the trick. Never did it willingly but once I had three crusades markers waiting in Normandy and a bloody earthquake destroyed the chapter house .... One failed crusade each turn for three turns ... I will let you guess what happened
    Ouch!

    I didn't realise that just losing the markers would count as a "lost crusade", though. Another reason I'm glad to have my "anticheese" rules for crusades/jihads: one active, one spare marker, no more (and if there's none active, then it's one spare marker not two - I don't build the next til the current one is active).

    AFAIK if a Chapter House is destroyed with an active Crusade the troops just "desert" they don't come home.
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