Rebellion CTD (how to decrease population?)

[fenix3279]

Like the topic says. I have a city on the verge of rebelling. I hear others say "just lower the population to make them happy." How do I do this exactly?

[Mediolanicus]

You train soldiers... that lowers the population.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

open the console in the campaign (push the button beneath Esc) and type "add_population [City_Name] -4000"
Without the quotation marks of course.
The name of the city should be written exactly as it appears in game, same capitals, same accents on the letters and with _ instead of a space.
A negative number lowers population, positive one increases it.
You can only add 4000 or less per command, but you can lower it with as much as you want.

e.g.: If Roma has a population of 25000 then add population Roma -10000000000000000000000 will set the population of Rome to 400.
If you then type add population Roma 10000000000000000000000, the population will be at 4400.

[Makanyane]

If its the CTD I think it is (and you don't mind letting town revolt) try taking all your garrison out apart from one unit. Then it should revolt without CTD.

Save first in-case I'm wrong and this is something entirely different

[fenix3279]

If its the CTD I think it is (and you don't mind letting town revolt) try taking all your garrison out apart from one unit. Then it should revolt without CTD.

Save first in-case I'm wrong and this is something entirely different

Really? So all I have to do is take out all but one unit and it should bypass the CTD? I always thought if a town revolted at all then that would result in an automatic trip back to the desktop. I thought the only way to get pass it would be to give the town back to whoever I took it from. Using the force diplomacy mod, of course. I'll try it but if this doesn't work, do you have anymore suggestions? I always seem to get a CTD immediately after pressing the end turn button. Oh, and I have like 2 (maybe 3) towns rebelling all at once. What can I say, they hate me

[bovi]

Thanks Makanyane, that's a new perspective to the rebelling business. I didn't know that a vacant city could cause more problems than an occupied one. I'll be sure to mention it to people.

[Makanyane]

I'm not 100% sure, as EB could have another problem specific to the mod, but there is a known CTD where the city is trying to rebel to its previous owner (eg not rebels) and the previous owner can't build troops in it, AND mercenary troops are available in the region.... https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=71772
for some research - sorry that's a bit hard to read through.
If its that there are coding fixes but they'd probably mess up EB's AoR system completely. You can avoid the CTD for your own cities about to revolt by reducing the garrison in them to just 1 unit (not 0), in which case it will revolt to a garrison made up of the available mercenaries.

If its an AI city about to revolt under the same conditions though you'd need to find a way of using the cheats (though you often see the AI reducing to a one unit garrison!). For your cities; strangely using the reduce population cheat might be the fairer way of doing it in terms of gameplay rather than letting the city revolt to a weak garrison, letting you exterminate it again.

EDIT: sorry Bovi, had been composing that and didn't see you post, Dol Guldur should be familiar with your files and also with this particular problem, so could probably say quite quickly if its same issue.

[Makanyane]

Thanks Makanyane, that's a new perspective to the rebelling business. I didn't know that a vacant city could cause more problems than an occupied one. I'll be sure to mention it to people.

Sorry to come back and DP but just to make sure you got the right information (as I had a couple of attempts at editing the other post to clarify), having a full garrison stay in the city doesn't help, it needs to be just one unit, which I know there isn't any logical explanation for, but it seems to work - the unit just gets ejected on revolt as it should.

I found it by accident when playing adapted (peasants removed) vanilla. If you know city is going to revolt you tend to pull all army out and destroy buildings, that gave the conditions for CTD, so I started leaving one unit behind which fixed it. As that was the way I always played I didn't realise till Dol started investigating it that it was the one unit only garrison that fixed it whereas full garrison didn't.... (which explains the 'yes it does', 'no it doesn't' argument between us at the beginning of that thread)

[bovi]

You say that this is a problem when "trying to rebel to its previous owner (eg not rebels) and the previous owner can't build troops in it, AND mercenary troops are available in the region...."

We have added the Apeleutheroi unit for this purpose, it is available for all factions when rebelling (using a nice trick to disallow recruiting for everyone but the eleutheroi), so this problem should actually be fixed, but there persists some problem with rebellions still . During our testing, I know that I repeatedly left a city empty, that there were mercenaries available most of the time and that it rebelled to Sweboz occasionally, and never crashed. Still stumped . But it's something I'll mention to people as an extra precaution when trying to bypass the CTD.

[fenix3279]

Ok, well I'll try that trick. One more question though. Let's say you just wanted to lower the population on a rebelling town. Say they only have 400 people and it won't go any lower. Then what? I'm screwed, right?

[bovi]

Sort of, yes. But it shouldn't be at 0% loyalty then, so trying a couple of times should get you past it.

[Dol Guldur]

Yes, I believe the method employed by EB to block the CTD was discussed some time ago. I am not familiar with it in practice (testing) though.

Here's the theory -

* freed slaves have EDU ownership of slave and slave only
* they are attached to the core bldgs and recruitable by all factions, inc. slave
* in dmb they are assigned textures for all factions (inc. slave)
* they appear in the building descr. as recruitable to the player faction but are not (there is no oversize image)

I've done a quick test in EB 1.0 pure and peasant revolt and loyalist revolt to non-player faction both work without CTD.

Does anyone have a saved game prior to the ctd? And, if so, let me know which fixes to apply.

Feel free to chip in, Mak ;)

We can play the yes / no game again

[bovi]

Sort of, yes. But it shouldn't be at 0% loyalty then, so trying a couple of times should get you past it.

I forgot to say, if that's really the problem here.

[Makanyane]

Yes, I believe the method employed by EB to block the CTD was discussed some time ago. I am not familiar with it in practice (testing) though.

Here's the theory -

* freed slaves have EDU ownership of slave and slave only
* they are attached to the core bldgs and recruitable by all factions, inc. slave
* in dmb they are assigned textures for all factions (inc. slave)
* they appear in the building descr. as recruitable to the player faction but are not (there is no oversize image)

I've done a quick test in EB 1.0 pure and peasant revolt and loyalist revolt to non-player faction both work without CTD.

Does anyone have a saved game prior to the ctd? And, if so, let me know which fixes to apply.

Feel free to chip in, Mak ;)

We can play the yes / no game again

Chip...

have got most recent DL, much to the disgust of my ISP who seems to think I've run out of bandwidth....

I guess from previous comments that the 'recruitable, but not really' generic militia units solved most of problem, however often in riot situation prior to revolt the core building can be damaged to the extent that it can no longer theoretically, or really recruit units. I tested that previously on similar argument with RTR and did note that the ability to recruit diplomats from core building was often lost due to damage during pre-revolt riot, so presumably would the ability to recruit the 'almost' recruitable unit if the core building is damaged to the necessary extent to make it non-functional prior to turn start.

The use of a hidden hinterland 'building' for recruitment of units in case of revolt was more protected - so long as you didn't add it deliberately to battle maps the only thing that could damage it to non-functioning status was the natural disasters which were somewhat rarer.

[bovi]

Oh, that sounds to be the problem indeed! Let's hope we can scrounge up a building complex from somewhere .

[Dol Guldur]

I think that was more than a chip - I had forgotten about the distinction between the core and 'hidden' buildings. But remind me again why it didn't happen in vanilla...

I can share the FATW method (we've never had any city-revolt CTDs since employing it some time ago), but it's a bit complex ;)

[bovi]

I've been thinking... I believe we can add Apeleutheroi recruitment to the roads and farms as well as the core building. By the time population pressure starts revolts all over, I assume that at least one of these buildings will have been created in most if not all settlements.

[bovi]

And then Redmeth comes with the obvious solution to put it on the government precursor buildings. Expect a permanent fix in a short while .

Makanyane, thank you so much for your input. This has been riding us for months, if not years.