worth crusading??

[MJF]

what do people think about crusading for the holy land? worth it or not?

i find whenever i attempt to crusade there, i always manage to conquer the holy land, but due to long shipping routes (and thus inevitably, it being cut by an enemy ship) i find it almost impossible to reinforce the provinces against the thousands of troops the muslim factions always build up to reconquer the land. as a result, 50 years after ive taken the province, i lose it, and the loss of a 'crusaded' province usually causes my king's influence to plummet leading to civil war.

thoughts??

[seireikhaan]

Well, if you're playing a GA game, then its usually quite worth it, if you can take them, because you'll get a solid number of GA points which should give you a nice base. If you like to roleplay your factions, then its a near must for western catholics. From a tactical perspective, however, its quite faulty, for reasons you mentioned. The only real plus side is that you can help stop any superpowers from emerging in the area by cutting them off early, so there is that. Personally, if I'm a western catholic, I put that a bit low on my priority list, as I put my initial efforts into carving myself a more comfortable and secure base before doing any of that "extra" sort of stuff. Once I'm nice and secure(generally I achieve something along those lines by about 1150-1170, depending some on the faction), then I usually see if I can make a strong push for a few crusades to Palestine, Tripoli, and Antioch. As for reinforcing it...well, that's why I'm waiting until I'm rather secure, so I can focus on building a large navy that can stretch to the holy land.

[Martok]

Pretty much what kamikhaan said.

To re-enact the Crusades as they happened historically is obviously not possible or desirable. They are worth it eventually, however, particularly if you can actually hold onto the Holy Land. Even setting aside "roleplaying" one's faction (which I usually do as well, at least to at least an exent), the potential trade income their is simply enormous -- Antioch & Tripoli are cash cows if you've got the ships in the water for a trading network.

And as kami also intimated, grabbing part or all of the Holy Land can really knock the Eggies back on their heels....which is usually a good thing in my experience! Otherwise they'll simply take over the entire East and become a superpower like they usuallyi do.

[caravel]

It's worth it for the influence bonus it gives to your faction leader. If you're going to hold on to territory afterwards you'll need to manually top up the crusade with some decent units and ensure you have fleets stretching out that way, otherwise it's pretty much doomed from the start. I also usually risk one of my trustworthy heirs or good general in a crusade to improve his piety and ensure that a decent man is out there running things.

[r johnson]

It's worth doing but requries alot of effort and dedication, personally I tend to wait until the faction is fighting one or two other factions so they have fewer troops free.

[I of the Storm]

Unless things are going really bad at home, I go for the Holy Land usually, for roleplaying reasons alone actually. In terms of game mechanics it's not that worthwile although these provinces have the potential to pay for themselves at least. If you manage to get a working shiplink and establish naval superiority in the Levante coast your safe (e.g. as the HRE get Venice early and this shouldn't be a problem). In vanilla, the egyptian armies have a large portion of peasants, nubians and desert cav, so you can play your strengths, i.e. tech superiority there.
I had some pretty epic battles there. I remember a siege defence where I had exactly two men (NB: men, not units) standing in the end. Come to think of it, those epic battles against all odds is what the Holy Land is there for I guess.

[Ironsword]

King Richard slammed his fist down on the table.
"Men, I need more men!"
Cardinal Despenser, the chancellor and a fine steward of his people leaned forward.
"There are two thousand miles between us and the holy land. I'm willing to gamble that not just few genoese, Teutons and dissatisfied Frenchmen would flock to your banner. You have more men than you think." He finished with a smile.

In all honesty, I like crusades. They provide you with a large army and it's always great to march them through rival territory and shave large numbers of troops from their armies as they join. As for holding territory I usually send one after another to create a colony that can co-depend on one another.
Still, that hasn't stopped thousands of Mongols sweeping in...

[Jxrc]

Roleplaying set aside, IMHO it is only worth a try depending on what faction you play as.

Getting the holy land can eb quite easy if you play as:

- the Italians or Sicilians: build ships, one crusade, subtantial troops to add and move straight to the Holy land; or,
- the Spanish: beat the Almohad and keep going until you reach Edessa.

Its doable if you play as the French or English. Just get rid of the English or French asap, consolidate, build build ships, one crusade, subtantial troops to add and move straight to the Holy land.

If you play as the HRE, you will most probably be fighting all the catholic factions around you very soon so it is doubtful that you can safely get going before a while. You could send a crusade on foot but usually the best you can expect if you are lucky is to take the province and keep it for a few turns before being ousted (loosing to many men crossing the orthodox provinces, fighting the turks, etc). On top of that you cannot really afford to fail given the unstable nature of your empire ... Since any faction that has a border with you will pretty much start a war immediately you'll probably be quite too busy for that kind of adventure (good news is that you got quite a few GA points to be grabbed closer to home - HRE and Drang nach Ost - to compensate). It is not at all impossible to get to the holy land before 1205 but it requires quite a drive since it basically requires that (1) you get rid of at least the French, Polish, Italian and Hungarian and (2) build a sea lane asap and (3) avoid war with any faction (sicilians, spanish) that could just cut it with one silly ship. Finally, it is worth noting that most of the time if you play as the HRE, the only faction that will remain neutral towards you is the Egyptian and that getting rid of your only trading partner can do a damage tyo you finance that is not compensated by the acquisition of an additional six provinces. Indeed even if Antioch and Tripoli are cash cows you are better off keeping you trade going since the additional cash flow from agriculture (2,000 floring give or take a few ?) will be now way near the loss in your trade income (if you took of the French, Polish, Italian and Hungarian that would mean the trade income of something like Flanders, Friesland, Saxony, Prussia, Pomerania, Brittany, Toulouse, Venice, Genoa and Tuscany)