Elephants

[Furious Mental]

Well if Hannibal didn't put his war elephants on ships I don't see how they got to Europe.

[Fenix7]

Well if Hannibal didn't put his war elephants on ships I don't see how they got to Europe.

Through the Alps.

[Barbarian]

Through the Alps.

Also in this case they had to be transported on ships, even if only for a short journy to Iberian peninsula

[LadyAnn]

Hannibal didn't bring the war elephants (the particular ones that crossed the Alps) all the way from North Africa. At the time, Hannibal raised the army from Iberia and marched from there. Iberia at the beginning of the Second Punic War was still in the hand of Carthage.

Don't know from where the elephants were first brought into Iberia though...

Annie

[rajpoot]

Elephants were native beasts there, as were lions in Italy, long long time back.

[Intrepid Sidekick]

There wont be anything to stop people trying to ship their elephants across the oceans, except enemy shipping or a lack of funds.
Replacing dead elephants will of course not be simple. You will have to ship them from their point of origin.
The fact that they make big targets will probably put many folks off using them for assaults on massed troops armed with guns.
As said elsewhere by folks, they make good pack animals and are very useful for moving the big guns.

[rajpoot]

There wont be anything to stop people trying to ship their elephants across the oceans, except enemy shipping or a lack of funds.

Even if one forgets historical accuracy for a moment, how at all will the elephants be depicted on board during naval battles?!

[Jolt]

Elephants were native beasts there, as were lions in Italy, long long time back.

I think the possible introduction of elephants is merely to please fanboys.
Elephants simply had no chance whatsoever against any gunpowder unit of the 18th Century. One round of musket bullets from a 40 musketeers towards a compact mass of elephants would be enough to bring down plenty of them while they were still in the distance. While Indians had 1.70 m in size, Indian Elephants were about 3-4 tall, and very easy to hit at a distance where humans wouldn't be as much. I think the only good purpose dozens of elephants would have in that period against any nation who used muskets would be to waste their bullets and nothing more.

EDIT: Unless they make UBER-BULLET RESISTING ELEPHANTS OF DOOM which wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Furious Mental]

That would be why war elephants weren't used in Europe in the 18th century. There were still plenty of them in use in south-east Asia.

[Apostle Zodd]

To me having elephants would be just another overhyped impractical unit that will just be in the way of good gaming.

OOOooooor the CA way and its just an excuse to mount a howetiser on its back or something of that sort....

[PBI]

There are two kinds of elephants present in TW games.

There are the unstoppable, indestructible walking tanks of the Timurids in M2TW, and there are the potentially powerful, but hard to use well and surprisingly fragile elephants of Broken Crescent.

It would be absurd if the first type were present in the game, but I wouldn't have any problem with the second type being there, especially since they will be totally outclassed by the weaponry of the period anyway. In fact I think it would seem very strange to conquer India and not encounter elephants.

Regarding the logistics of naval transport, CA has always wisely left them out almost completely, making it possible to load an entire army of thousands with attached siege train on a single bireme, and sail it halfway around the world without stopping. In my view this is the lesser of two evils, if they were represented correctly the player would spend half the game just worrying about building transports and laying down provisions and barely ever get to fight an actual battle, especially since Empire will focus so heavily on overseas expansion. And consider how hard the poor AI already finds it to conduct a half-decent amphibious attack.

[JeromeGrasdyke]

To me having elephants would be just another overhyped impractical unit that will just be in the way of good gaming.

OOOooooor the CA way and its just an excuse to mount a howetiser on its back or something of that sort....

Hmmmm... upright armoured elephants with a hand-cannon in each forefoot and a laser gun mounted on the trunk... tempting... but no. Sorry. Not even as a cheat unit.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I'll be sadded if they didn't have ELes in ETW. Besides, you going to invade Indina and not see Eles ?

[pike master]

Awesome info from Matt on elephant warfare.

Elephants were most certianly brought up from the northwest coast of Africa under Hannibal. 11th century contemporary wall paintings depict Moorish war elephants. So one would assume that the Forest Elephant was still around in limited numbers.

Africa was not the only source of Elephants during the Roman era. Pyrhuss used elephants that were raised from the Balkans.

Elephants were still being used as beast of burden on occasion carrying weapons and supplies during the Vietnam war.

[Jolt]

Haha, elephants raised in mountainous Albania, that's a good one. Pyrrhus' full grown elephants were of Indian origin given to/bought by (don't remember which one) Pyrrhus from the Seleucids. In any standard occasion, Pyrrhus could never raise elephants in such a climate.

To Jerome: Since "Laz0r elephants" can't be on, what about "Kevlar Elephants"? Not a bad idea. I'm sure it would appease all elephant fanboys, it's from the same line as Schreeing Women, Head Hurlers or Siberian Amazon Chariots! :)

[Lusitani]

Elephants were native beasts there, as were lions in Italy, long long time back.

There were no native elephants in the Iberian Peninsula during the Punic Wars.

[shopperkimpy]

Siamese troops in Haws war late 19century
elephant with getling gun [right] and howitzer ?

[Caius]

Hannibal didn't bring the war elephants (the particular ones that crossed the Alps) all the way from North Africa. At the time, Hannibal raised the army from Iberia and marched from there. Iberia at the beginning of the Second Punic War was still in the hand of Carthage.

Don't know from where the elephants were first brought into Iberia though...

Annie

Yes he did. Historically, he did. He built bridges to pass some areas he was stuck with water.

[Matt_Lane]

Yes he did. Historically, he did. He built bridges to pass some areas he was stuck with water.

Hamilcar took the Elephants over to Iberia during his conquest of it so they were already there when Hanibal took over the army after Hamilcars death. The Elephants were probably African with at least one Syrian Elephant and although much is written about Hanibal crossing the Alps and the Rhone (by raft) not much is mentioned about ferrying Packerderms across the straits of Gibraltar, even more impressive considering the Roman navy was dominant at the time.

[Ozzman1O1]

Elephants proved their worth to carthage after they killed many enemies in the truceless war,They were used in new carthage,cardoba,and anywhere else in spain the carthaginians settled....