Elephants

[rajpoot]

Elephants were native beasts there, as were lions in Italy, long long time back.

[Intrepid Sidekick]

There wont be anything to stop people trying to ship their elephants across the oceans, except enemy shipping or a lack of funds.
Replacing dead elephants will of course not be simple. You will have to ship them from their point of origin.
The fact that they make big targets will probably put many folks off using them for assaults on massed troops armed with guns.
As said elsewhere by folks, they make good pack animals and are very useful for moving the big guns.

[rajpoot]

There wont be anything to stop people trying to ship their elephants across the oceans, except enemy shipping or a lack of funds.

Even if one forgets historical accuracy for a moment, how at all will the elephants be depicted on board during naval battles?!

[Intrepid Sidekick]

They wont appear on decks in naval battles. They will be carried in transports.

[pevergreen]

How about the camels?
I believe their camely powers allow them the special "Shoot Hump" ability in sea battles. Its a one off cannon shot, it kills the unit though.

[Intrepid Sidekick]

Camels on ships..hmm now thats tricky.
Pirate camels were a common problem in the 18th century.
Animating camels swinging from the rigging is very hard to do without reference, and modern camels tend not to be so adept, as their 18th century pirate cousins, so getting mocap is very hard

[pevergreen]

Well, Im sure I can get a few volunteers to show up at CA Australia in Camel costumes to help out.

[woad&fangs]

Camels on ships..hmm now thats tricky.
Pirate camels were a common problem in the 18th century.
Animating camels swinging from the rigging is very hard to do without reference, and modern camels tend not to be so adept, as their 18th century pirate cousins, so getting mocap is very hard

That will be siggied.

Thanks for answering our questions by the way. It is very appreciated.

Edit: Nvm, not going to be siggied. It will go on my user page, however.

[Mailman653]

Pirate camels were a common problem in the 18th century.
Animating camels swinging from the rigging is very hard to do

Will they have a cutlass as well?

[Barbarian]

They wont appear on decks in naval battles. They will be carried in transports.

That's quite logical: man, who lets elephants take a walk on the deck during naval battles, is not worthy of the title "captain"

[Jolt]

Elephants were native beasts there, as were lions in Italy, long long time back.

I think the possible introduction of elephants is merely to please fanboys.
Elephants simply had no chance whatsoever against any gunpowder unit of the 18th Century. One round of musket bullets from a 40 musketeers towards a compact mass of elephants would be enough to bring down plenty of them while they were still in the distance. While Indians had 1.70 m in size, Indian Elephants were about 3-4 tall, and very easy to hit at a distance where humans wouldn't be as much. I think the only good purpose dozens of elephants would have in that period against any nation who used muskets would be to waste their bullets and nothing more.

EDIT: Unless they make UBER-BULLET RESISTING ELEPHANTS OF DOOM which wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Furious Mental]

That would be why war elephants weren't used in Europe in the 18th century. There were still plenty of them in use in south-east Asia.

[Jolt]

Elephants were rarely used in Europe even when they could provoke a devastating effect, one time by Pyrrhus and another time by Hannibal. I don't recall any other usage of elephants militarily.

[Furious Mental]

Yeah I know that, I was being sarcastic, but that's not the point. The point is Europe and SE Asia are two different places and they waged war differently. Something that would have been regarded as ridiculous in one place would have been quite normal in the other, and vice versa. Elephants are a perfect example.

[RLucid]

Elephants were rarely used in Europe even when they could provoke a devastating effect, one time by Pyrrhus and another time by Hannibal. I don't recall any other usage of elephants militarily.

Think the Romans used Ele's to in early Macedonian war, where they used them as cavalry screen, like Hannibal (not the over-powered battle tank versions which chew up a whole army).

All the enemy need to do is get together some iron spikey things, bit like the barbs on barbed wire and your Ele's loose any offensive effectiveness (1 archer per Ele is not high fire density, and visible missile could be dodge by troops in open order).

So they weren't any good once opposition had some time to come up with a counter.

[Apostle Zodd]

To me having elephants would be just another overhyped impractical unit that will just be in the way of good gaming.

OOOooooor the CA way and its just an excuse to mount a howetiser on its back or something of that sort....

[PBI]

There are two kinds of elephants present in TW games.

There are the unstoppable, indestructible walking tanks of the Timurids in M2TW, and there are the potentially powerful, but hard to use well and surprisingly fragile elephants of Broken Crescent.

It would be absurd if the first type were present in the game, but I wouldn't have any problem with the second type being there, especially since they will be totally outclassed by the weaponry of the period anyway. In fact I think it would seem very strange to conquer India and not encounter elephants.

Regarding the logistics of naval transport, CA has always wisely left them out almost completely, making it possible to load an entire army of thousands with attached siege train on a single bireme, and sail it halfway around the world without stopping. In my view this is the lesser of two evils, if they were represented correctly the player would spend half the game just worrying about building transports and laying down provisions and barely ever get to fight an actual battle, especially since Empire will focus so heavily on overseas expansion. And consider how hard the poor AI already finds it to conduct a half-decent amphibious attack.

[JeromeGrasdyke]

To me having elephants would be just another overhyped impractical unit that will just be in the way of good gaming.

OOOooooor the CA way and its just an excuse to mount a howetiser on its back or something of that sort....

Hmmmm... upright armoured elephants with a hand-cannon in each forefoot and a laser gun mounted on the trunk... tempting... but no. Sorry. Not even as a cheat unit.

[Caerfanan]

Hmmmm... upright armoured elephants with a hand-cannon in each forefoot and a laser gun mounted on the trunk... tempting... but no. Sorry. Not even as a cheat unit.

OK, I'll probably buy the game then!

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I'll be sadded if they didn't have ELes in ETW. Besides, you going to invade Indina and not see Eles ?

[pike master]

Awesome info from Matt on elephant warfare.

Elephants were most certianly brought up from the northwest coast of Africa under Hannibal. 11th century contemporary wall paintings depict Moorish war elephants. So one would assume that the Forest Elephant was still around in limited numbers.

Africa was not the only source of Elephants during the Roman era. Pyrhuss used elephants that were raised from the Balkans.

Elephants were still being used as beast of burden on occasion carrying weapons and supplies during the Vietnam war.

[Jolt]

Haha, elephants raised in mountainous Albania, that's a good one. Pyrrhus' full grown elephants were of Indian origin given to/bought by (don't remember which one) Pyrrhus from the Seleucids. In any standard occasion, Pyrrhus could never raise elephants in such a climate.

To Jerome: Since "Laz0r elephants" can't be on, what about "Kevlar Elephants"? Not a bad idea. I'm sure it would appease all elephant fanboys, it's from the same line as Schreeing Women, Head Hurlers or Siberian Amazon Chariots! :)

[LadyAnn]

Ah I miss the screeching women!

Annie

[Jochi Khan]

Ah I miss the screeching women!

Annie

They were a sight to see Annie.

[DefenderofFuture]

I think Creative Assembly just LOVES elephants. Elephants were only used in minor roles at this time, where they were at all. But the same was true of the Medieval period, and that didn't stop CA from including them in M2TW. I think it's a safe bet that they will be included, and they will be unrealistically powerful. But I don't mind. If I want realism, I'll download mods from The Guild!

[Lusitani]

Elephants were native beasts there, as were lions in Italy, long long time back.

There were no native elephants in the Iberian Peninsula during the Punic Wars.

[shopperkimpy]

Siamese troops in Haws war late 19century
elephant with getling gun [right] and howitzer ?

[Furious Mental]

It's probably a falconet, similar to the sort used for zumboruks.

[LadyAnn]

What? Still talking about Elephants when CA was trying hard to show us sails? :)

Annie

[Dunhill]

I originally asked for elephants back in the Sword Dojo. I anticipated a Siamese / SE Asia mod, where elephants could be used in combat by generals and/or kings.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=602

Not much reply back then but they did appear as a unit, not a special, and seem to have been somewhat controversial ever since. However, this may just be the result of the changing of the game to what it is has become now.

I no longer play, but I see that the game is fun for quite a few. I reckon that special units like elephants are what makes the game enjoyable for many.

PS There are some good pics of Thai elephant armour and usage on the web, and a recent Thai "war" movie had elephants.

http://video.google.com.au/videosear...en&sitesearch=

It's unlikely most TW fans will see it as it's in Thai, and sadly this little promo doesn't have the best parts of elephants in combat. However it does depict an interesting time where gunpowder was really getting going in a time of swords and spears.