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Thread: Grrr.....Over extended

  1. #1

    Default Grrr.....Over extended

    I'm playing as the Romani and it's 206 BC, I've been in a war with the carthaganians for quite some time now and for the most part kicking their butts. my empire ranges from the Turkish cost to parts of Ibera. (already conquered all of greece, the macedonians have been driven to thrace. I also have most of gaul although central gaul belongs to the arverni) Now this is where my problems start, I've been destroying stack after stack of Carthaganian armies in spain, all I seem to have there are those crappy iberian light spearmen and a few iberian light infantry. at the same time my former allies the arverni and the macedonians decided to betray me and are sending huge stacks against my Gaulic and northern Greek cities, not only that but for no reason the giant ptolomic empire decided they wanted war for no reason. (they destroyed all of the seleucid empire and their empire ranges from egypt to india ) I think I'm going to have to start a new campaign.

    any advice?

    edit* Forgot to mention I also have north africa although thats not threatened at the moment
    Last edited by Hellenic_Hoplite; 01-21-2008 at 18:25.

  2. #2
    Pincushioned Ashigaru Member Poulp''s Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Don't start a new campaign, yours is getting interesting.

    You're in the middle of a two-front war. First, finish the job on one front; since the Ptolemees are the master of the East, I'll go and finish Iberia/Gaul first.

    See the Rhine and Banub rivers ? Well, make everything west of the Rhine and south of the Danub yours, hold the bridges and pacify the land. Then, relocate your spare troops to your eastern front (very few troops, considering how rebellious Iberia is).

    What's new on the eastern front ? You've got the Ionian coast against a completely yellow east. How many stacks are you facing ? Do you think you can hold ? How much reinforcements can you get from Greece ? Are they enough ?

    Stupid AI should be bent on taking one of your city, ignoring the others. If there are no other threats, you can :
    1/ muster all your troops into the targeted city, or
    2/ form an army and let it roam in Asia Minor, ready to hit anything left unprotected (or simply divert some of their attention before being annihilated...)
    3/ same as 2/ but more aggresive: form an army led by a FM and take and hold a chokepoint (Antiocheia/Tarsos) against them. They will have to get through your fortress before reaching the Ionian coast.

    There are two points to bear in mind, don't give those cities away without a fight and you're probably in for a long period of time on the defensive. Are you ready to face endless stacks before you can finally go on the offensive ?

  3. #3
    death is just the beginning Member marodeur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    No! Don't start a new campaign! You are just at the point where the game get's interesting.
    By having conquered so much land already you should have enough money to build quite an army. So don't buy too many weak local armies, but concentrate on roman legions. For example phalangite mercenaries, cretan archers and gallic riders are good support, but don't waste your money on Lugoae or other light militia reserves.
    Send about 2 fullstacks against gaul and against hispania each, try to make a beachhead in Africa with one or two fullstacks and try to secure your border in the east with one or two. Build city walls to help in the defense of your eastern cities. If you can establish a beachhead in africa, you will force the karthagians to turn around and stop investing in iberia.
    I know you can't recruit roman troops outside italy - so produce reserves, transport them to the frontlines with ships, and reinforce your troops by merging them. You don't have to return your frontline troops back home to reinforce them. It's a question of logistics.
    The turns will take a bit longer, but you will wade through rivers of blood and in the end you will triumph. I hope you will enjoy it. It's a hard time you have to go through, but it is the most interesting part of the game: for the first (and last time) your empires supremacy is in question, cause all enemies unite against you. Break your enemys backs this time, and they will not be able to threaten you again.
    Good Luck!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    If your empire is that big, you should have enough money to deal with your foes.
    Establish some supply lines and try do defeat one enemy after another.
    Since you are in 206bc and have polybian troops you should start with the gauls cause of obvious reasons. I also think i wont get better in a new campaigne.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    I thought about it and I think i'll stick it out, besides the reason I play EB is because I don't find vanilla RTW challenging enough. These tips should come as great help since before I was sending endless legions on both fronts.

  6. #6
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Dammit, if you quit now I will kill you. This is the part where EB is fun! Usually what I do at this point is put my Italian cities into overdrive and churn out legions like nuts. Suggestion, deal with Gaul first, and start building allied facilities in Bononia, Mediolanum and Patavium. Hold your cards close and play defensive until your Neitos and Brihentin training facilities are up and running. With Neitos you can hold the line far better than even with legionaries.

    In Spain, you MUST rely on transshipment of troops from Italia. Milites and Caetrati are simply not going to cut it.

    In the east, try to hold out with Lonchophoroi and Hoplitai. They are trainable in Greece, and are certainly more than adequate, if you have a fullstack of them, to crush the Ptolemaioi. That way you take some pressure off your Roman training facilities. Let Greece take care of itself. If your hoplitai facilities aren't up yet, then try to hold with one army in Greece, give up Ionia and hold Byzantion with another army you can use to take the offensive against the Makedonioi, one army in Spain, and two in Gaul. In Spain, try to hold on to what you have and stop attacking. The Qarthadastim can't possibly hurl stacks at you as fast as you can destroy them anyway.

    Ensure a constant flow of reinforcements from Italia via your fleets. Send something like a halfstack worth per army to nearby cities. I usually, where Romans are concerned, send 3 non-Roman units, 5 legion units (2-2-1) and 2 cavalry units at one go. With 8 cities, you can pull off the production of one vexillarium a turn.

    Once you've stabilised the fronts, train up a couple more legions and concentrate overwhelming force on one faction. You definitely have the economic resources by now to raise at least six to seven Polybian fullstacks. (I once had 7 Marian fullstack legions with all continental Europe conquered, and still was earning 15k a turn.) I would recommend the Gauls, because their troops are most valuable and highest-level. Then hurl everything against Spain. Then, send everything east, use one or two to finish off Makedonia, then everything south to finish off the Qarthadastim. Only attack the Ptolemaioi after you've finished off all these, then pincer attack via Asia Minor while you launch an invasion of the Egyptian heartland (which should be denudedof troops by now) and finish off their elite and cavalry training facilitieson the Nile . Isolate them from the Levant, then hold until Marians hit and you get instant armies anywhere you go. Then sock them hard all the way back to Mesopotamia.
    Last edited by pezhetairoi; 01-22-2008 at 00:41.


    EB DEVOTEE SINCE 2004

  7. #7

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    So far the Egyptians managed to kick me out of my two colonies in turkey, I'm trying my best to get Byzantium built up with Stone walls while getting as many troops in it as possible. I'm no longer sending legions to two fronts I've been sending them all to gaul, the Arverni managed to take two of my Gaulic cities. I've taken one back and also taken their capital and destroyed most of their army. I have legions in gaul and more being built. It's going to be a while before I'm powerful enough to take on Egypt in their on their own turf so until I take the rest of spain and gaul I'm going to stay on the defensive with them. I've also managed to take most of africa, I'm glad I did because I'm seeing alot less of those dreaded "Elite African Pikemen" and seeing more Iberian Militias and "Liby-Phoenecian Infantry"

  8. #8
    Pincushioned Ashigaru Member Poulp''s Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Sounds good so far

    In Asia Minor, even if you don't have the manpower, you'll probably want to spam the place with spies; keeping an eye on your enemy and helping rebellion is always a sound idea.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Mind if I ask for a picture of your empire?

  10. #10
    death is just the beginning Member marodeur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Quote Originally Posted by blado
    Mind if I ask for a picture of your empire?
    Good idea. And for the rest - go on! You will get them down. Ignore Egypt, stay on the defense and destroy every opposition in the west.

  11. #11
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Yes, ignore Egypt. A word of advice, keep your army just outside Byzantion, not inside of it. Field battles of relief are far more economical on troops and much more experience-gaining than siege battles. Sally battles have a monster city in the middle of the map, so you can only run around the edges. It really is very tedious.

    Good to hear about the Gauls, remember that the objective of war is not territory but the destruction of your enemy's armies. The territory in the vicinity comes along with that. Dealing with Africa so fast was perhaps not a good idea... It's a second front that can't really support the other theatres yet...


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  12. #12
    death is just the beginning Member marodeur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Quote Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
    Dealing with Africa so fast was perhaps not a good idea... It's a second front that can't really support the other theatres yet...
    In my opinion it is always a good idea to threaten kart-hadast at its source of power. worked well for me as a romanoi as well as a ptoley.

  13. #13
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    True. Though it would certainly be enough to drive the Qarthadastim out of Spain, then wait for them to ceasefire as they surely will since they no longer share a land border. Then you can ally with them against the Ptolies, whom they will undoubtedly be at war with.

    How's the situation in Spain, anyhows?


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  14. #14

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Upload this save! Id love to play a campaign like this, sounds fun!
    In the words of Marcvs Avrelivs;
    Live each day as if it were your last

    Ο ΠΟΛΕΜΟΣ ΚΑΤΑ ΤΗΣ ΣΕΛΕΥΚΕΙΑΣ - A Makedonike AAR
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97530

  15. #15

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    To be honest, you've got as good a representation as any the RTW engine will give you of why the real-life SPQR did not do as you did and blitz the entire map in just under a century. Fall back and consolidate if you need to; you'll always be able to come back and obtain revenge later.

  16. #16
    death is just the beginning Member marodeur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    if it has to be, give away some provinces to other factions you are allied with or who are neutral to you but at war with your enemy to build a buffer zone. it may be necessary to give them a bit of money to make them take the provinces (one of many stupidities concerning the RTW-diplomacy-engine: you have to pay for the acceptance of land given away!!! ). but it can be a good deal for you anyhow because it lessens the pressure to your borders so you need not so many troops and do not have to pay for retraining this often. and friendly neighbours will also trade with you, enlarging your treasury.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Sorry about the lack of pictures and saves, unfortunatly this game is on my other computer. (if only it had internet access )

    I took a break from my campaign for about a day but I'm getting back on it today so I'll give you all updates when I get them.

  18. #18
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    You really must keep us updated, this is shaping up to be really exciting.


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  19. #19

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    I have some pictures and a save on this disk, any idea how to post them?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    accidental post, please delete

  21. #21
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic_Hoplite
    I have some pictures and a save on this disk, any idea how to post them?
    w/ the pix, try uploading them onto photobucket.com or s/t like that, but you lost me w/ the file upload. try rapidshare, or s/t like that.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    the thing is, they're in rich text document format, I'm not sure how to change them.

  23. #23
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    ooh..... get the original pictures, and convert them into jpg, then upload them. use www.irfanview.com to convert it- its the easiest way to convert tgas files to jpg with no hassles- just open the tgas, then click "save as" then choose the file type u want to save it as.....
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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  24. #24

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended



    Finally got it to work :D

    More to come.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended






  26. #26
    Member Member Menander of India's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Can you post a picture with the FOW turned off?
    The Ptolemaic Empire is impressive!!
    However, if you don't take the Ptolemies into consideration, the situation doesn't seem that bad. Good luck with it!

  27. #27

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Seems the Carthagenians are making a little "comeback", thats what I get for giving them the right to be a cliant state.



    Sorry I forgot to turn the FoW off, I'll be sure to do it the next time.

    Edit*

    I didn't think anyone would be this intereasted in my campaigns, maybe I'll make an AAR on my next campaign.
    Last edited by Hellenic_Hoplite; 01-24-2008 at 05:56.

  28. #28
    death is just the beginning Member marodeur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    The Ptolies for sure are a problem... a most impressive one... But in gaul you should be able to destroy your enemies. After finnising of the Arverni, go for the carthaginans. The iberian mines will boost your economy even more. Hold the line at the hellespont, this should be possible with one larger fleet and one or two stacks of troops. If possible, ally yourself with the Koinon Hellenion and Pontos (or at least give them some money for fighting against the ptolies), they are an important buffer. Probably, if you conquer Kyrene, you can even hand it to the KoiHell or the maks, to have a little buffer in northern africa too.
    Avoid being sucked in the sandwars in northern africa against the ptolies, stay on the defensive, build city walls and probably some forts, occupy river crossings to make every advance as costy as possible for them. Probably you can even attack the ptolies coastlines with a halfstack on a fleet: raids in Alexandria, Sidon, Antiochia and others will seriously damage their economy. Storm the town, massacre the inhabitants, destroy every destroyable building. with a little bit of luck, you will be able to change the coastal cities in rebellious hotbeds, raising against their ptolie-overlords every possible time. If you are making a raid for example against Sidon, you can also hire merchenaries and send them on raids deeper in ptolie-land (for example Damascus,...). The money from plunder will cover the mercenaries costs. When you have finished the Carthaginans in Iberia and northern Africa, you can turn your full attention against the Ptolies. Make sure to secure the rhine - and if possible, the danube- border against the northern barbarians (by occupying the rivercrossings). It will be an interesting campaign. Good luck!
    Last edited by marodeur; 01-24-2008 at 10:43.

  29. #29
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    On the Qarthadastim in North Africa...ownage. That was idiocy, leaving Qarthadastim as a client state. Whatever were you thinking!? Delenda est Carthago, man! :( As it is, congratulations, you've just given yourself a second front that you can ill afford at this time. Happy trying to fix the situation, I don't have a solution since I would never had let such a thing happen.

    On Gaul, I suppose you are intending to unleash those full stacks I see in Emporion, Tolosa and Viennos on the enemy? You can quickly end the Gallic wars by sending the Viennos army at the Belgae, while your Gergovian troops are sent to reinforce the army besieging Lemonum, which ought to be the only concentration of so many Gallic troops left since you said you'd destroyed all the Gallic forces otherwise. Sally the Emporion army, break the Qarthadastim besieging you, then attack towards Numantia to get a central position while your Arse army secures its boundary then immediately strikes out for Mastia.

    How are your logistics at the moment? Greece looks secure at the moment from the Yellows, so no worries there. Your weakest links are Illyria (unless you combine all the stacks in Segestica, Dalminion and Epidamnos--you don't need that huge a garrison) and Africa. You're about to lose Atiqa unless you raise another legion to take Kart-Hadast. You might as well use that legion to raid the Ptolies. Raid up the Nile, if you can. Do attach a savegame someday...


    EB DEVOTEE SINCE 2004

  30. #30

    Default Re: Grrr.....Over extended

    Egypt is gigantic! In my new campain they are expanding rather slowly.

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