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Thread: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    This warms my heart. After hearing gun-toters in so many backroom gun threads argue that the main reason the 2nd Amendment exists is so that Joe Public can maintain the ability to rise up against a tyrannical government, I've finally seen it happen. I applaud you, Cookie Thornton, for excercising your right, nay, your responsibility to rise up and overthrow your oppressors.

    NRA members, rejoice.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23059784/

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    KIRKWOOD, Mo. - A gunman with a history of acrimony against civic leaders stormed City Hall during a council meeting, yelled "Shoot the mayor!" and opened fire, killing two police officers and three city officials before law enforcers fatally shot him, authorities said.
    The gunman, identified as Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton, critically injured the city's mayor and wounded a reporter Thursday night before law enforcers fatally shot him. He had previously claimed he was harassed and stifled in the past by city leaders.
    "The only way that I can put into context that you might understand is that my brother went to war tonight with the people, the government that was putting torment and strife into his life," Thornton's brother, Gerald Thornton, told KMOV-TV of St. Louis.
    Officials said the man had a history of disruptive behavior, and was convicted twice on disorderly conduct charges for acting out in the town meetings. Ten days before the shooting, Thornton had lost a federal lawsuit against this St. Louis suburb which he said harassed him and denied him his constitutional right to speak at the meetings.
    Mayor among wounded
    Tracy Panus, a St. Louis County Police spokeswoman, said the names of the victims would not be released until a news conference on Friday. But the wounded included Mayor Mike Swoboda, who was in critical condition late Thursday in the intensive-care unit of St. John's Mercy Hospital in Creve Coeur, hospital spokesman Bill McShane said. Another victim, Suburban Journals newspaper reporter Todd Smith, was in satisfactory condition, McShane said.
    Panus said the gunman killed one officer outside City Hall, then walked into the council chambers, shot another and continued pulling the trigger.
    Janet McNichols, a reporter covering the meeting for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, told the newspaper the meeting had just started when the shooter opened fire. He started yelling about shooting the mayor while walking around and firing, hitting police Officer Tom Ballman in the head, she said.
    The shooter then went after Public Works Director Kenneth Yost, who was sitting in front of Swoboda, and shot Yost in the head, McNichols said.
    She also said the shooter fired at City Attorney John Hessel, who fended off the attacker by throwing chairs. The shooter then moved behind the desk where the council sits and fired more shots at council members.
    "We crawled under the chairs and just laid there," McNichols told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Friday. "We heard Cookie shooting, and then we heard some shouting, and the police, the Kirkwood police had heard what was going on, and they ran in, and they shot him."
    Frequent council meeting visitor
    Witness Alan Hopefl told CNN that Thornton was a frequent visitor at council meetings and would be disruptive, sometimes making donkey noises. Hopefl said he was there when the shooting erupted Thursday.
    "They just opened up a public hearing, and the attorney was reading the document into the record when Mr. Thornton entered the room, went down one side of the room up to the police officer who's normally there, pulled the gun out, shot the police officer, and then he proceeded to move toward the front of the council," Hopefl said.
    The newspaper quoted McNichols as saying Swoboda, and council members Michael H.T. Lynch and Connie Karr also were hit. She identified the gunman as Charles Thornton, whom she knows from covering the council.
    The shooting was the latest in a number of such attacks across the United States. A man last Saturday fatally shot five women in a clothing store in an outdoor shopping center in a suburb of Chicago, Illinois. He has yet to be located.
    In December, a 19-year-old man opened fire in an Omaha, Nebraska, shopping mall, killing eight people and wounding four before committing suicide.
    Thornton was often a contentious presence at it meetings; he had twice been convicted of disorderly conduct for disrupting meetings in May 2006.
    Ire at mayor
    Most of his ire was directed at the mayor and Yost, McNichols said.
    In a federal lawsuit stemming from his arrests during two meetings just weeks apart, Thornton insisted that Kirkwood officials violated his constitutional rights to free speech by barring him from speaking at the meetings.
    That case was tossed out on Jan. 28, with the judge saying that "any restrictions on Thornton's speech were reasonable, viewpoint neutral, and served important governmental interests."
    Gerald Thornton told KMOV the legal setback may have been his brother's final straw. "He has (spoken) on it as best he could in the courts, and they denied all rights to the access of protection and he took it upon himself to go to war and end the issue," he said.
    Kirkwood is about 20 miles southwest of downtown St. Louis. City Hall is in a quiet area filled with condominiums, eateries and shops, not far from a dance studio and train station.
    Despite its reputation locally for serenity, the city has grappled in recent years with crimes that brought it unwanted attention.
    Near City Hall is a pizzeria once managed by Michael Devlin, who kidnapped 11-year-old Shawn Hornbeck in 2002 and held him for four years before authorities rescued the boy in January 2007. Also rescued was Ben Ownby, another teenager Devlin abducted just days before Devlin's arrest.
    Those crimes got Devlin life terms on state charges, as well as 170 years behind bars on federal charges that he made pornography.
    City Hall also is about a block from a park now named for a former Kirkwood police sergeant and father of three who was killed by a man witnesses said blamed police for the death of his 12-year-old half-brother two hours earlier.
    The man, Kevin Johnson, was convicted in November of first-degree murder and last week was sentenced to death.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    OMG, we need to ban all guns now! Well played, Goofball.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Well, technically the tyrannical government is supposed to be the federal one.

    If we're opening up another gun thread, how about the guy who was going to shoot up the Super Bowl, but chickened out at the last minute. And we also have some killings at LaTech this morning, a female student took out 2 others and herself. It's nice to see equality in our school shooters, women have been drastically under-represented.
    Last edited by drone; 02-08-2008 at 23:27.
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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    OMG, we need to ban all guns now! Well played, Goofball.

    why the hell do you have to take the negative road Xiahou?

    here we have a man finally taking it to the man and expressing his constitutional rights in a meaningful, well thought out way....any red blooded American should salute this brave soul

    why do you hate freedom?

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Meh. And what's the point of this Goofball?

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Altough I was being a bit tongue in cheek which I apologize for, my point is more or less what I was saying.

    I am interested in how gun advocates... no, that's not really fair... 2nd Amendment advocates will react to this story. It's easy when it's a school shooting for you guys to say "well, he's just a nutjob using his guns for a purpose neither protected nor envisioned by the 2nd Amendment, so you can't hold that against us."

    But here, we have a man who felt so oppressed by his government, that (and I add, only after apparently exhausting all legal means of fighting back) he decided he had to rise up and declare war on them for the greater good.

    This is what 2nd Amendment advocates point to as the true purpose behind their need to own guns.

    So I ask: do you applaud Mr. Thornton, or disown him?
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Those that represent us are too terrified to have their monopoly on violence, they just don't deserve it they are too scared for that. What use is it when those that should protect us have a complete nervous breakdown when something doesn't go as they wanted it to go. Plans go wrong when people start planning, useless. Step aside, hagunnan, vogala en unbidan

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    Those that represent us are too terrified to have their monopoly on violence, they just don't deserve it they are too scared for that. What use is it when those that should protect us have a complete nervous breakdown when something doesn't go as they wanted it to go. Plans go wrong when people start planning, useless. Step aside, hagunnan, vogala en unbidan
    I'm assuming that as it is now Friday after work in your part of the world, you have already enjoyed a pint or seven?

    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    I'm assuming that as it is now Friday after work in your part of the world, you have already enjoyed a pint or seven?

    Dead serious, state monopoly of violence is rediculous, we can't rely on it so we should have the right to have whatever the hell we want to have.

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    Dead serious, state monopoly of violence is rediculous, we can't rely on it so we should have the right to have whatever the hell we want to have.
    Oh, okay. I didn't really get that from your earlier post.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    This gives me an idea for a thread where I post an example of news reporter slandering someone and then question the freedom of the press.

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
    This gives me an idea for a thread where I post an example of news reporter slandering someone and then question the freedom of the press.
    By all means, please start that thread.

    But I note that none of the usual suspects has answered the question:

    Do you applaud Thornton, or disown him?

    He has used his gun for the reason you say guns should be owned.

    What say you?
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    He can attack an oppressive government with the arms allowed by the Bill of Rights, but has no right to escape the legal consequences of his actions.

    In similar form, even if I attacked the government for legitimate reasons, I would not have a right to escape legal consequences.

    I don't applaud those who use their rights inappropriately. What kind of loaded garbage is that? Let me set a trap so that they are either monsters of hypocrites. That would be fun.

    What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 02-08-2008 at 19:47.
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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    He can attack an oppressive government with the arms allowed by the Bill of Rights, but has no right to escape the legal consequences of his actions.

    In similar form, even if I attacked the government for legitimate reasons, I would not have a right to escape legal consequences.

    Big deal.

    What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?


    Okay, that made me almost shoot coffee out of my nose.

    Siggied.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    By all means, please start that thread.

    But I note that none of the usual suspects has answered the question:

    Do you applaud Thornton, or disown him?

    He has used his gun for the reason you say guns should be owned.

    What say you?
    It's a completely false dilemna. A crazed shooting spree by a nut upset over parking tickets is not equivalent to opposing a tyrannical government. Why would I disown him? I never owned him in the first place.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    He can attack an oppressive government with the arms allowed by the Bill of Rights, but has no right to escape the legal consequences of his actions.

    In similar form, even if I attacked the government for legitimate reasons, I would not have a right to escape legal consequences.

    I don't applaud those who use their rights inappropriately. What kind of loaded garbage is that? Let me set a trap so that they are either monsters of hypocrites. That would be fun.
    All very true.

    What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?
    Mysteriously, their gun control failed to end all violent crime- they need someone else to blame now.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 02-08-2008 at 19:57.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    Altough I was being a bit tongue in cheek which I apologize for, my point is more or less what I was saying.

    I am interested in how gun advocates... no, that's not really fair... 2nd Amendment advocates will react to this story. It's easy when it's a school shooting for you guys to say "well, he's just a nutjob using his guns for a purpose neither protected nor envisioned by the 2nd Amendment, so you can't hold that against us."

    But here, we have a man who felt so oppressed by his government, that (and I add, only after apparently exhausting all legal means of fighting back) he decided he had to rise up and declare war on them for the greater good.

    This is what 2nd Amendment advocates point to as the true purpose behind their need to own guns.

    So I ask: do you applaud Mr. Thornton, or disown him?
    'Disown'. He was obviously a bit wacky, and did not use guns for the purpose of the second amendment, which is to overthrow tyranny, not merely vengeance killings on people you have a beef with. But the whole debate of whether to applaud him for fighting government oppression or condemn him for the killings rests on whether you believe he was being oppressed, and the details in the article are not that clear on his past.

    That is the crux of the issue - how many people believe there is oppression and that it needs to be forcefully dealt with. The issue of whether one is oppressed can't be judged by the individual in this case, it must be judged by the public. Are parking tickets and barring from some council meetings oppression? I don't think so.

    CR
    Last edited by Crazed Rabbit; 02-08-2008 at 19:56.
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    He can attack an oppressive government with the arms allowed by the Bill of Rights, but has no right to escape the legal consequences of his actions.

    In similar form, even if I attacked the government for legitimate reasons, I would not have a right to escape legal consequences.

    I don't applaud those who use their rights inappropriately. What kind of loaded garbage is that? Let me set a trap so that they are either monsters of hypocrites. That would be fun.
    Why do you say he used his rights inappropriately? He believed that he was being oppressed by his government. He tried to work within the system by attending political meetings, then by turning to the courts. When he believed he was still being oppressed and had no legal recourse within the system, he rose up in armed rebellion.

    I didn't set the trap. 2nd Amendment advocates did.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    This isn't armed rebellion, Goofball. It's vengeance killings for parking tickets and being thrown out of a couple meetings. What's he rebelling against? Parking tickets? The city's throwing out of disorderly council meeting attendees?

    Just because you kill someone in the government doesn't mean you're in armed rebellion.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Gah! Goofball is right. Back in 1787 the second amendment made sense. But not any longer. America has grown enormously since then!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    So the second amendment should immediately cease the present protection of the right to bare arms...


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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Times change. The Founding Fathers called them "bear arms," when in fact I would describe them more as "bear forequarters," or perhaps "bear front legs." I know it's kind of confusing, since bears will rear up on their hind legs for short periods, but let's face it, most of the time they're quadrupeds.

    Would you really call these bear "arms"?

    Last edited by Lemur; 02-08-2008 at 20:22.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Who couldn't support this?
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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    Why do you say he used his rights inappropriately? He believed that he was being oppressed by his government. He tried to work within the system by attending political meetings, then by turning to the courts. When he believed he was still being oppressed and had no legal recourse within the system, he rose up in armed rebellion.

    I didn't set the trap. 2nd Amendment advocates did.
    Where does it say in the 2nd amendment that you are supposed to attack the government with guns and other weapons? We need to tell people that going on a one man shooting spree in a government building wasn't what the founding fathers envisioned?
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Would you really call these bear "arms"?
    That question requires a paws while I research which claws of the Constitution you are re-furring to.
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  24. #24

    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    Why do you say he used his rights inappropriately? He believed that he was being oppressed by his government. He tried to work within the system by attending political meetings, then by turning to the courts. When he believed he was still being oppressed and had no legal recourse within the system, he rose up in armed rebellion.

    I didn't set the trap. 2nd Amendment advocates did.
    Nope. If he was being oppressed by the government it would be a different matter. He wasn't though. It's not an issue of what he believed.

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Maybe they meant "bear arms" like "chicken wings" - maybe the 2nd amendment was really the creation of a social safety net for the poor and hungry. "When you can no longer pay your bills or grow enough food, the government must provide you with fried Bears arms on the bone (or bear-fu for vegetarians)."
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    This warms my heart. After hearing gun-toters in so many backroom gun threads argue that the main reason the 2nd Amendment exists is so that Joe Public can maintain the ability to rise up against a tyrannical government, I've finally seen it happen. I applaud you, Cookie Thornton, for excercising your right, nay, your responsibility to rise up and overthrow your oppressors.

    NRA members, rejoice.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23059784/

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    updated 2 minutes ago function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { var n = document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' && n && window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = dt.D2S(pdt,((''.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true));} } } UpdateTimeStamp('633380871634200000');

    KIRKWOOD, Mo. - A gunman with a history of acrimony against civic leaders stormed City Hall during a council meeting, yelled "Shoot the mayor!" and opened fire, killing two police officers and three city officials before law enforcers fatally shot him, authorities said.
    The gunman, identified as Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton, critically injured the city's mayor and wounded a reporter Thursday night before law enforcers fatally shot him. He had previously claimed he was harassed and stifled in the past by city leaders.
    "The only way that I can put into context that you might understand is that my brother went to war tonight with the people, the government that was putting torment and strife into his life," Thornton's brother, Gerald Thornton, told KMOV-TV of St. Louis.
    Officials said the man had a history of disruptive behavior, and was convicted twice on disorderly conduct charges for acting out in the town meetings. Ten days before the shooting, Thornton had lost a federal lawsuit against this St. Louis suburb which he said harassed him and denied him his constitutional right to speak at the meetings.
    Mayor among wounded
    Tracy Panus, a St. Louis County Police spokeswoman, said the names of the victims would not be released until a news conference on Friday. But the wounded included Mayor Mike Swoboda, who was in critical condition late Thursday in the intensive-care unit of St. John's Mercy Hospital in Creve Coeur, hospital spokesman Bill McShane said. Another victim, Suburban Journals newspaper reporter Todd Smith, was in satisfactory condition, McShane said.
    Panus said the gunman killed one officer outside City Hall, then walked into the council chambers, shot another and continued pulling the trigger.
    Janet McNichols, a reporter covering the meeting for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, told the newspaper the meeting had just started when the shooter opened fire. He started yelling about shooting the mayor while walking around and firing, hitting police Officer Tom Ballman in the head, she said.
    The shooter then went after Public Works Director Kenneth Yost, who was sitting in front of Swoboda, and shot Yost in the head, McNichols said.
    She also said the shooter fired at City Attorney John Hessel, who fended off the attacker by throwing chairs. The shooter then moved behind the desk where the council sits and fired more shots at council members.
    "We crawled under the chairs and just laid there," McNichols told ABC's "Good Morning America" on Friday. "We heard Cookie shooting, and then we heard some shouting, and the police, the Kirkwood police had heard what was going on, and they ran in, and they shot him."
    Frequent council meeting visitor
    Witness Alan Hopefl told CNN that Thornton was a frequent visitor at council meetings and would be disruptive, sometimes making donkey noises. Hopefl said he was there when the shooting erupted Thursday.
    "They just opened up a public hearing, and the attorney was reading the document into the record when Mr. Thornton entered the room, went down one side of the room up to the police officer who's normally there, pulled the gun out, shot the police officer, and then he proceeded to move toward the front of the council," Hopefl said.
    The newspaper quoted McNichols as saying Swoboda, and council members Michael H.T. Lynch and Connie Karr also were hit. She identified the gunman as Charles Thornton, whom she knows from covering the council.
    The shooting was the latest in a number of such attacks across the United States. A man last Saturday fatally shot five women in a clothing store in an outdoor shopping center in a suburb of Chicago, Illinois. He has yet to be located.
    In December, a 19-year-old man opened fire in an Omaha, Nebraska, shopping mall, killing eight people and wounding four before committing suicide.
    Thornton was often a contentious presence at it meetings; he had twice been convicted of disorderly conduct for disrupting meetings in May 2006.
    Ire at mayor
    Most of his ire was directed at the mayor and Yost, McNichols said.
    In a federal lawsuit stemming from his arrests during two meetings just weeks apart, Thornton insisted that Kirkwood officials violated his constitutional rights to free speech by barring him from speaking at the meetings.
    That case was tossed out on Jan. 28, with the judge saying that "any restrictions on Thornton's speech were reasonable, viewpoint neutral, and served important governmental interests."
    Gerald Thornton told KMOV the legal setback may have been his brother's final straw. "He has (spoken) on it as best he could in the courts, and they denied all rights to the access of protection and he took it upon himself to go to war and end the issue," he said.
    Kirkwood is about 20 miles southwest of downtown St. Louis. City Hall is in a quiet area filled with condominiums, eateries and shops, not far from a dance studio and train station.
    Despite its reputation locally for serenity, the city has grappled in recent years with crimes that brought it unwanted attention.
    Near City Hall is a pizzeria once managed by Michael Devlin, who kidnapped 11-year-old Shawn Hornbeck in 2002 and held him for four years before authorities rescued the boy in January 2007. Also rescued was Ben Ownby, another teenager Devlin abducted just days before Devlin's arrest.
    Those crimes got Devlin life terms on state charges, as well as 170 years behind bars on federal charges that he made pornography.
    City Hall also is about a block from a park now named for a former Kirkwood police sergeant and father of three who was killed by a man witnesses said blamed police for the death of his 12-year-old half-brother two hours earlier.
    The man, Kevin Johnson, was convicted in November of first-degree murder and last week was sentenced to death.
    So when we eliminate the Second Amendment can we also outlaw automobiles? Far more people die in car accidents every year than in gun related homicides? How about knives? What about butter knives? Sporks? Slingshots? Sticks? Stones? What about metal tubes and PVC piping that can be used to make pipe bombs? Fertilizer? Ammonia? Better play it safe and outlaw 'dangerous' language and literature.

    To hell with it, let's cut to the chase and implement state sponsored eugenics programs that weed out the wackos, loonies and borderline head cases. No wait, let's endow the State with the right to neuter anyone who demonstrates "unacceptable levels of hostility", you know, so as to prevent violent crimes from being commited in the first place. An ounce of prevention and all that...

    Take a stand man! Sacrifice thy family jewels for the greater good!
    "Why spoil the beauty of the thing with legality?" - Theodore Roosevelt

    Idealism is masturbation, but unlike real masturbation idealism actually makes one blind. - Fragony

    Though Adrian did a brilliant job of defending the great man that is Hugo Chavez, I decided to post this anyway.. - JAG (who else?)

  27. #27
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    I'd like to go on record saying I completely support the criminalization of sporks.

    Ajax

    "I do not yet know how chivalry will fare in these calamitous times of ours." --- Don Quixote
    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." --- Jack Handey

  28. #28
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Bears. Armed with sporks. Spork-bearing bears. Bear-sporks. Borks. Yeah, that would scare just about anybody.


  29. #29
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    You're supposed to have more people for a rebellion. I like the thought though
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  30. #30
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South
    You're supposed to have more people for a rebellion. I like the thought though
    I guess that's why "Army of One" went away.

    One soldier shows up on a battlefield:

    "Hey, where is everyone?"

    (distant voice) "Army of one, HOOAH!"


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



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