1.3 useful and useless fractions

[KrooK]

Lets divide on useful on gs and useless - here I'm talking about 1 vs 1

Useful
Papacy, Russia, Portugal, Wenice, Denmark, Milan

Useless
Turkey, Aztecs, Moors, Egypt, Mongols, Timurids

What do you think?

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Lets divide on useful on gs and useless - here I'm talking about 1 vs 1

Useful
Papacy, Russia, Portugal, Wenice, Denmark, Milan

Useless
Turkey, Aztecs, Moors, Egypt, Mongols, Timurids

What do you think?

I think you should play Retrofit. :)

[KrooK]

I played. Modders went wrong way. On retrofit fraction with good infantry and good medium cavarly are stronger (despite they were very strong on vanilla) while nations with good cavarly but weak inf and missile units are weaker.

Useful
Italian fractions and generall all fractions with pavs
Useless
Turkey, Poland, Egypt, England

And funniest on retrofit is that feudal sergeants (normal peasants) are stronger than foot knights.

[CeltiberoMordred]

I played. Modders went wrong way. On retrofit fraction with good infantry and good medium cavarly are stronger (despite they were very strong on vanilla) while nations with good cavarly but weak inf and missile units are weaker.

Useful
Italian fractions and generall all fractions with pavs
Useless
Turkey, Poland, Egypt, England

And funniest on retrofit is that feudal sergeants (normal peasants) are stronger than foot knights.

I played. Krook went wrong way testing retrofit and it's good to know how deep is the vision of Krook testing TW balances in order to rely in his statements. Now I can say all is clear :) .

This is what happens in Retrofit when you make an engagement between armoured sergeants (best spears for most christian factions) vs dismounted feudal knights (a common and not the best sword). Grassy flatland, good weather, both fresh, etc.

Armoured Sergeants                             DFK
75 men, 640 florins                      60 men, 540 florins
***number of kills***                  ***number of kills***
        28                                      64
        25                                      68
        31                                      73
        49                                      74
        26                                      73

It's just an example. The randomness range shows us that we can assume that Armoured sergeants NEVER win Vs DFK. Do we need to test DFK versus other worse spears too?

Krook can tell us that he doesn't like Retrofit and prefers vanilla, but he cannot lie and therefore confusing others. Maybe he doesn't lie and he is a good guy that tell us what he thinks. Maybe he tested another mod. But if he doesn't lie and he tested Retrofit really, then it means simply that he is as good as (put here whoever you want) testing TW games.

Enough said, and back to topic, M2TW vanilla balance is so simple that only are useful all those factions (or fractions heh) that allow you to recruit as many cavalries as possible. This profile is just what Italian factions are, with a good roster of several types of cheap medium cavalry. Bad factions are all those who relies in missile/horsearchery warfare and cannot recruit as many cavalries(or no cavalries at all) as italian factions, like Mongols/Timurids, Turks, Egypt, England, Aztecs, etc.

Regards.

[Wolf_Kyolic]

I played. Modders went wrong way.

Oh yes Krook. All the serious clans moved to Retrofit and they are all wrong as well. Wolves, Celtis, Aggonies, Devotio and all the others are wrong. Vanilla is better but they think Retro is better. Because they don't know the game.

Hf rushing on vanilla Krook. :)

[KrooK]

Heh - what an agression.

Congrats guys. So tell me plz why no one takes Turkey on retrofit :) Or Timurids - I'm playing retrofit since 2 months, maybe 6 weeks but I don't remember any game when someone used Timurids.

I wrote my point of view and you explained yours. Your suggestion about me are rather into bad taste. ESPECIALLY YOUR KYOLIC.
Some clans moved to retro, some didn't. Actually many strongest did not. Before you start talking how great clan Wolves are - play with some good clans from mtw 2. Then you can post.

Mordred - you are legend of total war. But legend status does not make you alpha and omega. Mod is bad balanced - some fractions are weak and some much stronger than into vanilla. Stronger fractions are mostly those who were strong into mtw 2 1.2 - like Italian fractions.
So plz don't tell about my lies when we can see your mistakes (I assume you were tester). Plz tell me, my dear legend how can I break Papacy using Turks (I call this fraction all the time cause I liked them on mtw 1). I'm only stupid liar and I don't know.

Lets compare (here I'm comparing 2 whole typical armies not comparison unit vs unit)

PAPACY - very good cavarly (cheap price, sword upgrades are very cheap)
very good missile units (pavs)
great infantry (papal guard breaks everything - only varagnian guard is better, upgrades are very cheap)

GL HF
Your looking for additional information
KrooK of SC

Turkey - medium cavarly with expensive upgrades
weak infantry - ottoman infantry bows are far too weak against pavs
medium missile units - but quite expensive

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Noone said Retrofit is perfect. But it is 10 times better than the Vanilla for sure. That is what we say. There is a plan for Retrofit 2.0 and all the remaining problems will be fixed.

RPS logic works there in Retrofit where that is BROKEN in vanilla. Some factions need to be balanced again (Turks are included in this... It is agreed that they are weak... Byz on the other hand is overpowered and etc...).

With version 2.0, all will be solved. However 1.3 will remain BROKEN forever! ;)


And again: Although its is not perfect, Retrofit is many times better than the vanilla.

Btw it is "faction" not "fraction".

See you my friendski. :)