Underdog triumphs...at YOUR expense

[J.Alco]

Ever been in a campaign when you're the one whose strongest, with great cash flowing in your coffers and excellent standing forces that are composed of factional AND regional troops, and are essentially the undisputed power in your little area of the EB map? And has it ever happened that you invade a province/faction that you know, by using spies, is weak and should easily be a pushover, only to find yourself a couple of turns later licking your wounds and staring at your still-standing enemies in enraged surprise?

It happened to me recently. Playing as Rome, I had finally managed, by 240-something BC to subdue Sicily, southern Gaul, all of Italy, and get the Polybian reforms. I decided to get started on expanding eastwards, and my first target? Illyria, which had spammed many of its regional units and had somehow managed to fend off Epeiros, which was by this time becoming the dominant hellenic power in the meditterannean. I decided: hell, a few low-grade rebels ain't a big deal, and I could use the foothold against Pyrrhus' boys, so I send in a full stack of troops, composed mainly of factional units (hastati, Principes, Triarii, etc) but with a few regionals bolstering the ranks. Thing was, the only cavalry I had was by FM's bodyguard cavalry, and if I'd maybe taken the trouble to spy on the spammed Eleuthoroi army on the outskirts of Segestica, maybe I'd have learned the reason why they'd not been conquered by the Epeirots yet...

Needless to say, they'd spammed alot of skirmisher peltastai units, so when I engaged them in battle I was forced to chase their soldiers around like an idiot with my footmen and cavalry while they continued to bombard me with javelins and run away. Even though I managed to catch and destroy the odd unit here and there, and of course their regular melee units didn't stand a chance, I still COULD NOT catch the bloody skirmishers.

So, after nearly an hour, and having suffered already over 50% casualties, I withdrew my forces bitterly, repeating to myself over and over 'This isn't a defeat. I haven't lost this battle. I'm just withdrawing from a difficult position, that's all'. THEN I thought 'I'll bet this is how the Americans felt during Vietnam'.

After that fiasco, it was obvious that I didn't have the manpower to fight a battle AND besiege and take Segestica, so I limped home to Italy with my pride having been wounded considerably.

Still, it wasn't all bad. A few turns later Illyria was still Eleutheroi, and my re-trained army had plenty more cavalry detachments. In my next invasion, I of course butchered their army and then, having taken the settlement, decided to do the usual thing, which was exterminate half the population. It made me feel a little better, but the memory of one's defeat never really fades...

I checked the timeline, the whole sordid affair only took about eight turns (two EB years).

What about YOU? What's YOUR tale of misfortune where you've been humbled by a small, plucky nation and have had doubts about yourself, even going so far as to say 'If this were a hollywood flick, I'd be the evil empire going up against a Braveheart-figure'.

Tell, tell!

[Boyar Son]

The cathaginians after only having one province left, attacked my large
3-hastati 3-principes 3-triarii 2-general 2 cav 3-velites army with a militia force. Liby-phoenician troops, well rounded tho, but I had the superior army in equipment.

Tribune lost including maybe %75-80 of the army. Crushing defeat. I think it was my no-star incompetent varrus-like general.

[Bellum]

I make silly mistakes all the time. Just recently I let a unit of light cavalry get caught and (mostly) killed by militia hoplites and skirmishers.

[Maeran]

If you're playing as Rome, this is entirely historically accurate as a way for you to win wars. Never admit you had your ass handed to you and keep sending legions.

I've never been beaten by an underdog, but when I decided to destroy Carthage (Carthago Delenda est) in my last campaign, I did get bogged down because I could never hunt down all those pesky family members. Got them in the end, but only after far more expenditure and manpower than I had planned- by a factor of decades.

I've been defeated by Seleucia in Asia Minor. But of course, I was Roman and therefore used this as an excuse to raise more legions and re-invade. But it's highly unlikely that anyone would call the grey death underdogs.

[Tiberius Nero]

Ever been in a campaign when you're the one whose strongest, with great cash flowing in your coffers and excellent standing forces that are composed of factional AND regional troops, and are essentially the undisputed power in your little area of the EB map? And has it ever happened that you invade a province/faction that you know, by using spies, is weak and should easily be a pushover, only to find yourself a couple of turns later licking your wounds and staring at your still-standing enemies in enraged surprise?

In this game? I wish.

[jman47]

just the other day i was playing as the carthaginians and in the beginning of the campaign decided to take messana, so i sent a half stack over there thinking it would be enough, especially since i had ellies, but the truth was quite different.

i had the ellies smash the gates and a section of wall and poured my infantry through, but after 5 minutes of brutal combat i still hadnt gained the advantage, so i had my ellies smash a third hole, go through it, and attack the enemy in the rear expecting them to rout.

instead they killed almost all the ellies causing them to run amok into my infantry, causing them to rout.

the worst part was the enemies general unit was down to only 1 man, the general! if i coulda killed him i would of routed them easy, that really sucked.

that was the most personally crushing victory i ever faced.


another time as the romans i took syracusa winning the battle but lost 54 percent of my men, talk about a phyrric victory, i had the city put to the sword killing 13000+ though so i got the last laugh.

[GodEmperorLeto]

Needless to say, they'd spammed alot of skirmisher peltastai units, so when I engaged them in battle I was forced to chase their soldiers around like an idiot with my footmen and cavalry while they continued to bombard me with javelins and run away. Even though I managed to catch and destroy the odd unit here and there, and of course their regular melee units didn't stand a chance, I still COULD NOT catch the bloody skirmishers.

Look up the Battle of Sphacteria.

I haven't lost this battle. I'm just withdrawing from a difficult position, that's all'. THEN I thought 'I'll bet this is how the Americans felt during Vietnam'.

Actually, imagine suffering 10% casualties, destroying 60% of theirs, leveling a city, all despite having an ineffective idiot for a general, and then have every single one of your provinces rebel back home until you withdraw your soldiers. Then imagine Epiros invading Illyria and gobbling it up. Then you'd understand how SOME Americans felt.

The worst I've ever had was fighting a rebel army composed entirely of skirmishers... on a mountainside. And I had to march uphill to reach them. There was no way around their rear. When all was said and done, I'd lost 5 battles and won the last one. I had to raise an entire stack of cavalry, and that took me several years to come up with the funds for that. Charging uphill they took horrendous casualties, but I won that final battle.

Be careful in Bruttium where your rebels spawn and where you engage them. You may end up fighting a heck of an uphill battle that you weren't expecting to.

[woad&fangs]

I feel your pain NeoSpartan. Basically the same thing is happening to me right now. Those Sweboz bodyguards are nasty. I'm also simultaneosly fighing the Getai out in the Balkans. Lost nearly 40% of my troops, most of which were my top troops on that front, fighting uphill in some woods. In every other battle I've been destroying them in city and flatland fighting. Luckily, Thracian Light Spearmen and Falxmen are a dime a dozen so I can keep that front rolling. I also took 60% casualties in a victory against the Romans in a massive battle between Bononia and Arretium. Originally I lost the battle, again with massive casualties for both sides, but I had a ctd so I got to replay it. The turn before my general got the "restless sleeper" trait so I've been referring to it as the "Battle of the Nightmare" in my head. The Eleuthroi settlement of Vesontio introduced 2,000+ of my soldiers to the the reaper.

In my shortlived Getai campaign my army invaded Naissos and lost 99% of my troops in a draw. Yep, I was down to 10 skirmishers who routed and my factionleader. Not "my faction leader and his bodyguards", nope, just my factionleader. The enemy were all dead except for 5 elite thracians. I didn't want to risk the life of my leader so I just waited for time to run out. Luckily, the thracians were disbanded after the battle because they had so few, so I got to take an undefended Naissos the next turn.

I've had plenty of big defeats or phyrric victories in this game.

[Chris1959]

Segesta!!!

So many times I've lost count. Now in any restart of a Romani campaign they get the full 3 Legion treatment!!

[The Wandering Scholar]

I must say that this has never happened to me, if I should win then I do. Possibly a few defeats against Barbarians as Romans but I always win in the end

[marodeur]

Ever been in a campaign when you're the one whose strongest, with great cash flowing in your coffers and excellent standing forces that are composed of factional AND regional troops, and are essentially the undisputed power in your little area of the EB map? And has it ever happened that you invade a province/faction that you know, by using spies, is weak and should easily be a pushover, only to find yourself a couple of turns later licking your wounds and staring at your still-standing enemies in enraged surprise?

It was such an interesting thread until now - back to topic!


Recently I ran into some Eleutheroi in the libyan desert: two units of Akontistai (light greek skirmishers) and one of greek slingers. I hab two units of Antesignari and one half unit of numidian light Cavalry. The odds were 3:1 in my favour. It was a desaster. The slingers killed of my numidian cavalry, and the skirmishers did not treat my antesignari very well. I simply could not force them to make a stand-up fight. In the end I lost 2/3 of my forces, killing only 10 % of the enemies... . I simply had the wrong type of forces at the wrong place at the wrong time. Later on, I destroyed those Eleutheroi with two units of greek cavalry - perfectly suited for this task...

[Dhampir]

I'm playing 1.0 as Baktria. I

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

cheat

to get lots of money because I suck.

I am aware of the great threat that rebel cities pose to attacking armies, so I decide to take Kophen with overwhelming force. I have four armies of several thousand men each of a mix of cheap and mid-level units, units that I bribed from the AS and mercenaries.

With so many troops, if I fight on the battle my machine will bog down and most of the attacking forces won't even show up, being inexplicably "delayed". So, I simmed it.

Well...

[PershsNhpios]

..?

I don't see any problem here. The AI probably knew you sucked and decided to suck themselves.
I don't mean to be rude, but I really would like to know how people defeat Roman units without ending up as sucky as Dhampir.
Or does no one else find any trouble with them?

Oh, by the way - I recommend the Win Conditions thread in the unofficial mods forum for those who haven't read it - it has destroyed any boredom I was feeling with EB.

[marodeur]

bye, bye, little bactrian boys...



give peace a chance...

Post No. 100! Yuppie!

[Gebeleisis]

OMFG!!!!!!!!
I think in that moment i'd trew my monitor of the window and eat my desk

[Tiberius Nero]

That can only be photoshopped.

[bovi]

I believe it. The autocalc can do weird things.

[Gebeleisis]

i do also bovi.
why photoshop your own defeat to make it bigger ?

[Dhampir]

The campaign at the hardest setting has the most ridiculous rebels imaginable.

[NeoSpartan]

dude.... don't ever autocalc unless ur sending 500 cheap units vs 200 AI cheapos.

[Dhampir]

dude.... don't ever autocalc unless ur sending 500 cheap units vs 200 AI cheapos.

I'm not even going to try fighting a battle that big.

[Belisarius Maximus]

I've only just installed EB myself, so I dont have any major/weird defeat stories (yet..) but I remember two exceptionally bad ones from Vanilla RTW. the first was during my julii campaign and I was ahead of schedule (historically speaking) and I was conquering Gaul with a pre-marian army around 240bc. When I reached condate redonum the Gauls threw a gigantic full stack at me accompanied by Condate redonums's garrison. The battlefield had conveniently some woods to the left of my army, into which I hid about one quarter of my forces. The battle begins and as the Gauls emerge I suddenly realise the larger army is coming up my rear thanks to the illogical deployment of their forces in relation to the campaign map. I begin to fight a rather desperate battle, and thanks to some still unknown circumstance to me, my army made a mass rout, and routed straight through the larger gallic army, and so none survived. Everyone was seemingly dead so I wondered why the battle hadn't ended, upon which point I realised the 1/4 of my army I had hid at the start was still waiting patiently in the woods. Taking into account the swift dispatch of the other 3/4 I then won a seemingly impossible victory with only the last 1/4 against the horde that I had thought minutes ago had spelled my doom. It was a great victory as far as my tactical skill is concerned but, back on the campaign map the gauls wiped out this now paltry army and took back all the territory between condate redonum and narbo martius, which was guarded by skeleton garrisons of mercenary warbands.

Later in the same campaign, after conquering Gaul a second time, I was in the process of eliminating the spanish. Narbo Martius (which by now was a large city) had a gladiator uprising on a huge scale. I had just had the marian reforms and so I reluctantly diverted a newly recruited full stack bursting full of praetorian and legionary cohorts to deal with the rebels. I then lost every last soldier in a battle against a preposterously huge army composed of every elite cavalry and infantry unit from Britain to Armenia. I was not amused. Eventually I crushed them with an army of surplus pre-marian troops, winning the victory through weight of numbers more than anything else...

[Visitor13]

I'm not even going to try fighting a battle that big.

I've had stuff like that happen to me also when autoresolving, my casualties exceeding five thousand while the AI got out with nary a scratch.

Generally, an enemy settlement + enemy full stack + autocalc = crushing defeat. Especially if the AI is led by a family member.

Set "allow unlimited men on the battlefield" to true in the preferences.txt to have all your men show up on the battlefield at the same time. So that you can command them personally instead of autoresolving.

Although you'll probably have to lower your graphics settings to avoid a heavy FPS hit.

[The Celtic Viking]

I'm not even going to try fighting a battle that big.

Then auto_win attacker/defender is your friend. :)