The Pope must die

[Kenshin the vega bound]

I am going to play a game as Italy tonight, and I am going straight for the pope. I am going to destroy him. Also I am going to keep on wiping the pope out every time he comes back back. Wish me luck, it should be a load of fun.

[Kaidonni]

Okay...I wish you luck. LOTS of luck.

It should be fun for you...(and us! Bwahahahah! Oh, did I just type that in? Oh fudge, how silly of me...mwahah...). Please, keep us informed with status updates and screenshots. :)

[Raz]

I would've chose the Sicilians, those pesky French and HRE up North will probably declare a crusade on you. Heh.

[Kenshin the vega bound]

Heh heh heh. Call my King the Pope Slayer. He has personally killed 3 popes. I am rping a mad king who wants to unite the chrisitan church under his banner, and under his puppet pope. So he attacked the eastern romans, and took Constantinople. He has fought two epic battles. He has encirled a rabble pope army of 1000 troops with 700. He also did the same thing to a far tougher Byzantine army led by a Jedi prince. Currently he is 47, and he has to return to Italy to put down a third papal revolt. My King is a blood thirsty blood lover. He slaughters rebels and enemy soldiers alike.

Also I had a really fun seige against the pope from his second revolt. I lost with only a few minutes to the time out, but it was a exciting battle.

This game has been the most fun I've had with total war for a long time.

[ArtistofWarfare]

I made a thread that relates to this just a few minutes ago....

1133 mid campaign questions thread...

I have to go ahead and call the Pope in my game simply a Puppet as well. He serves the interests of himself and his allies, not Catholicism.

I am awaiting answers to questions to decide where to go from here, but I very well may be going after his throat quite soon here too...

[Kenshin the vega bound]

Well the Pope has come back 4 times, and each time I've sent him back into the sea. Each time he comes back with more, and more stacks. He went a whole 35 years without coming back, one time. Perhaps there Catholic horde are starting to think twice about visting itally.

Anyway upgrading rome to a castle has helped a bit, since the pope always loses thosands of troops taking it.

[Kenshin the vega bound]

The adventure came to a suddenly halt. I didnt have any heirs.

I was dealing with the 5th wave of papal troops. High papal revolts are a lot tougher than early ones. Also this one was like 5 stacks big. The revolts where getting bigger, and bigger I am going to have to start this all over again.

Its a shame as I was well on the way to winning a GA victory

[Aldgilles]

The adventure came to a suddenly halt. I didnt have any heirs.

I feel your pain; years ago I had a very good Polish campaign running only to run out of heirs. Imagine the disappointment to get this 'you lose' message while thinking you are winning!
Ever since when there were no heirs I used the .unfreeze. cheat, unfair I know but to lose because your king isn't reproducing is more than I can bare!

[caravel]

Personally I never use unfreeze, if my empire fails due to a lack of heirs I tend to just accept it and restart. Also it always seems to be when you're down to your last celibate, horseshoe sucking 60 year old that you need unfreeze the most but he's usually unwilling to postpone the cemetary for another 16 years.

[Jxrc]

Never used unfreeze (don't know how). In any event, if your king is 60 and you have no heir, you will have an awful time reloading the games and awfult lot of times until the heir matures ....

Usually I do not have too much trouble getting an heir (unless if I start an English campaign in Early and if the first king is 28 or 29 rather than 38 ... go figure ...). Nevertheless it can be a pain in the neck when you've got a king with great heirs that only dies when he is 68 if you discover that almost all the princes who have been married for ages have no heir at all when they become king in their later 40's .... So much fun to see all those six and seven star princes disappear one after the other to rule the realm for just a few years .... Of course the last of your princes will finally manage to get an heir with just two stars and nice v&v such as secret pride, chinless wonder, etc ...

[Tony Furze]

What s "ünfreeze"?

Anyway, I must have seen that end-of-Campaign-because-of-no-heirs umpteen times.Its usually the reason why I have to keep starting again.

Ontopic, I always target the Pope when Im playing a Muslim faction-I ve made it an extra unofficial GA goal.

[Martok]

What s "ünfreeze"?

If you type in the ".unfreeze." cheat code, a male heir will automatically be born the next year. People tend to use it when their faction leader is getting up there in years but hasn't produced an heir yet.

Ontopic, I always target the Pope when Im playing a Muslim faction-I ve made it an extra unofficial GA goal.

Good man.

As someone who enjoys playing the Eggies a lot -- and therefore have been on the receiving end of more Crusades than I care to count -- I have to say that taking out the Papacy is often a great pleasure for me.

[Dark Water]

Hey there good luck with the future attempts of domination but your post has got me thinking, is there any use in controlling the papacy e.g. can you control who goes on crusades or excommunications?? And why does the papacy keep giving me money? Ive just started an early, hard campaign as the Spanish. Any answers would be appreciated thanks very much

[Kenshin the vega bound]

I found keeping the Pope down as the Italians pretty easy.

I am going to do something mad. I am going to go after the Pope as the Germans.

Only rule is never make peace with the Pope. I am going to rush Italy, and go straight for the pope.

I suspect that the Germans might be gangbanged on all sides, hopefully it will be interesting.

[Martok]

Hey there good luck with the future attempts of domination but your post has got me thinking, is there any use in controlling the papacy e.g. can you control who goes on crusades or excommunications??

No. Destroying the Papal faction and setting up a puppet pope does not allow you to influence/control Crusades or ex-coms. If the Papacy is destroyed, all current excommunications are cancelled and no more Crusades can be launched (unless/until the Pope re-emerges).

And why does the papacy keep giving me money? Ive just started an early, hard campaign as the Spanish. Any answers would be appreciated thanks very much

To be honest, I'm not really sure what determines which factions the Pope gives money, nor why he does it. About the only thing we know with any certainty is that he apparently only gives money to Catholic factions that can Crusade. So if you play as the Danes, Polish, or Hungarians, you won't get any money from him.

Aside from that, however, the question is something of a mystery.

[Martok]

I found keeping the Pope down as the Italians pretty easy.

I am going to do something mad. I am going to go after the Pope as the Germans.

Only rule is never make peace with the Pope. I am going to rush Italy, and go straight for the pope.

I suspect that the Germans might be gangbanged on all sides, hopefully it will be interesting.

"Interesting" isn't the word I would use -- "excruciatingly painful" is the term that comes to my mind!

[Tony Furze]

We could have a competition called "Rush the Pope". Each one of us has a different faction and see who gets him first. Bonus points for keeping him out of the game...Extra points for a successful assassination...minor points for getting the Pope s minions.

[Aldgilles]

What s "ünfreeze"?

I'm sorry dude, I thought everybody knew...
When you type .unfreeze. (including the dots) when you are in the strategic map at the next turn (year) a male child will be born (rejoice! ) You will know when you've done it right when you hear a sound effect (after typing .unfreeze.). Look at Frogbeasteggs beginners guide (somewhere near the bottom) for all the other cheatcodes

[Spongie]

Can't you engineer a civil war if you're worried about an aging king with no heirs? Pick a good general / regional governor, give him a huge army to command, strip him of all titles and wait, then side with him when all hell breaks loose?

[Innocentius]

To be honest, I'm not really sure what determines which factions the Pope gives money, nor why he does it. About the only thing we know with any certainty is that he apparently only gives money to Catholic factions that can Crusade. So if you play as the Danes, Polish, or Hungarians, you won't get any money from him.

Aside from that, however, the question is something of a mystery.

Well, pious kings tend to get more money from the Pope - that and kingdoms who wage wars against Muslims/Pagans. I almost always recieve a gift from the Pope shortly after invading a non-Christian province. Sometimes just being pious and leaving your Catholic brethren alone seems to be enough though, as both the HRE and the English usually receive a lot of money in Early, and none of these factions have an opportunity to fight pagans right away.

[Martok]

Can't you engineer a civil war if you're worried about an aging king with no heirs? Pick a good general / regional governor, give him a huge army to command, strip him of all titles and wait, then side with him when all hell breaks loose?

You can also try him for treason to further lower his loyalty, although of course you then run the risk of actually convicting & executing him. (It's obviously best to use v0 spy when using this tactic.)


Alternatively, you could also engineer a civil war if you have 2 or more generals of royal blood. If you do, just place both generals in command of a large army and then wait for your faction leader to die. (In addition, it's also a good idea to make sure you've married off a princess to at least one of the claimants if you can; that way he can start producing heirs right away.)

[Martok]

Well, pious kings tend to get more money from the Pope - that and kingdoms who wage wars against Muslims/Pagans. I almost always recieve a gift from the Pope shortly after invading a non-Christian province. Sometimes just being pious and leaving your Catholic brethren alone seems to be enough though, as both the HRE and the English usually receive a lot of money in Early, and none of these factions have an opportunity to fight pagans right away.

True, but both factions (English & HRE) are often at war with other Catholic factions, so I rather doubt that being "good" to your Catholic neighbors has much to do with the Pope giving those factions money. You may be right about their kings' piety, however -- I've never really thought to check that.

[seireikhaan]

True, but both factions (English & HRE) are often at war with other Catholic factions, so I rather doubt that being "good" to your Catholic neighbors has much to do with the Pope giving those factions money. You may be right about their kings' piety, however -- I've never really thought to check that.

It does seem to help. For example, Hungary's starting king has nine piety, if I am remembering right, and Hungary almost always gets a little extra spare change from El Papa. I've had a few games as England where, after a little pruning, I've had strings of uber-kings, with 7-9 piety, dread, command, and acumen. In one such case where I had a king with 8 piety, I actually got 1k florins about 6 turns in a row and 9 turns out of 11 as a whole. Of course, I also did spam cardinals and sent them to every far corner of the medieval world to evanelize the populaces as well, so that might've had something to do with it as well. I always find it funny when the Islamic rulers of Palestine all of a sudden have to deal with revolts from Catholic rebels when they've owned the province for hundreds of years.

[Dark Water]

Many thanks for the info...

[ArtistofWarfare]

It does seem to help. For example, Hungary's starting king has nine piety, if I am remembering right, and Hungary almost always gets a little extra spare change from El Papa. I've had a few games as England where, after a little pruning, I've had strings of uber-kings, with 7-9 piety, dread, command, and acumen. In one such case where I had a king with 8 piety, I actually got 1k florins about 6 turns in a row and 9 turns out of 11 as a whole. Of course, I also did spam cardinals and sent them to every far corner of the medieval world to evanelize the populaces as well, so that might've had something to do with it as well. I always find it funny when the Islamic rulers of Palestine all of a sudden have to deal with revolts from Catholic rebels when they've owned the province for hundreds of years.

My only hesitation with the spreading of the Catholic religion into Arab provinces before I'm ready to take them is exactly that: I'm not ready to take them yet. Now, of course that's the point- You can begin wearing them down with religion before you invade. Still, I don't want to pump up Catholicism or cause a Catholic revolt in those provinces only to see it benefit someone else.

It's a balancing act, like everything else ...

[Spongie]

Alternatively, you could also engineer a civil war if you have 2 or more generals of royal blood. If you do, just place both generals in command of a large army and then wait for your faction leader to die.

Oooo, do you need to have 2+ generals of royal blood? I was under the impression that you could use any general for this (obviously, a good one) and effectively disown your own royal house by backing the rebels once civil war broke out (but only from reading some mention of this in the manual, not from personal experience).

[Martok]

Oooo, do you need to have 2+ generals of royal blood? I was under the impression that you could use any general for this (obviously, a good one) and effectively disown your own royal house by backing the rebels once civil war broke out (but only from reading some mention of this in the manual, not from personal experience).

You're quite correct. Civil wars can still occur from a regular general rebelling against your faction leader.

I just happen to especially enjoy the other type of civil war. I really like the idea of two royal uncles fighting other for the throne, as they're most likely brothers -- it feels more dramatic that way.