Advise on Roman Clients please.

[Chris1959]

I'd like some advise relating to Roman Client Rulers in level IV govts.

First of all I think they are great when you first establish them. However, I've had several problems as they age and die.

First and worst is that they are not replaced and then after 3 turns settlement revolts and CTD in most cases. I've been working round this by re-loading a few years earlier and when it happens I rush a FM to the city and knock down govt building and start again with a new ruler.

So do Clients ever have heirs?

Am I best doing as above but a bit like history set up a type II govt and annex a senetorial province. Or keep going as I am.

Any advise will be much appreciated.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Clients do not have Heirs. But if you destroy the govt building upon death of a client, then build Regional Pacification and next build TypeIV govt (two turns of construction) you get a new one... Consider it the time and formalities it takes to officially appoint a replacement...

[Chris1959]

Thanks Tellos that's what I've decided to do after manty CTD's.

At what point should I start moving up the govt ladder, Marian reforms are at least 30 years off?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well I played only once with the Romani, and quitted almost immediately then: I do not find that faction in any way particularly appealing, but most of all I find it too easy. (Same reason why I once played, but almost immediately quitted a Qartadastim campaign.)

However there is a rule of thumb:
1) Do you need/have a client ruler there?
2) Do you need the local military potential, really?
3) Are you faced with continuous civic issues, such as squalor/poor economy/low public order/high unrest ?

1) Suggests to keep a type IV.
2) Suggest the same, but if you've fully upgraded the local military structures, your empire is better off with type II here. Unless you have a client ruler there.
3) Suggests to move for the lowest type possible: i.e. type II or III if homeland is unavailable.

Also keep in mind that the Marian reforms are the result of socio-economic developments which can only be represented by building certain buildings (Latifundia mostly) which in turn require type II.

But an experienced Romani player (one who actually has played beyond ~8 turns) can probably give you better advise.

[Chris1959]

Thanks again, but what happens if I demolish a type IV with a client in place to build a II or III?

Will I get some horrible CTD's etc?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Nope, but your Client ruler will not like that (in effect you are taking away his kingdom) and he will become seriously unhappy with you. Or the local people consider him an impostor. Either one, or both.

In any case there are some built-in penalties to punish this 'exploit'.

[bovi]

Actually, there are not, in the public version.

[bigmilt16]

I must add that client rulers can be extremely expensive and prevent your FM's from gaining experience in management

[Chris1959]

I think from now on I'll use level IV to begin with and on a clients death send in a FM and establish a level II, to

[konny]

At what point should I start moving up the govt ladder, Marian reforms are at least 30 years off?

You should not place Allied States everywhere.

First of all you will need towns for your family members to rule - and you are bombarded with births in the first years of your campaign.

Another point is the limited zone of recruitement for your factional units until Marian Reforms. That is Italy, including Gallia Togata without Mediolanum. So, you shouldn't build Level IV Govs there.

I limit the Allied States to roleplaying. That is Masalia (until I have conquered enough of Gaul to make it a province), may be Athens (for about one generation) or also Alexandria, and lands that I have to conquer because the factions I have been fighting had expanded there, but what are far outside of the zone of interesst of the historical Rome in that periode.

Examples would be provinces in the Central Balkans where Epeiros might have expanded into, or the African hinterland that you might be required to conquer during your war(s) with Karthago. I leave these to "Allied Kingdoms" thereafter.


When you want to know what is the best governement given for recruiting units click on the image in my sig.

[McAds]

I’m similar to you Knny, only I use type IV in Taras and Rhegion and have done since I conquered them towards the start of the game. I’m now in the year 216 and I’ve similarly got a type IV at Arse in Iberia.

[Chris1959]

Konny I've only used type IV in far flung places such as Siga and Tylis, where I hope to raise good factional troops and also where I didn't want such as Tuat when destroying Carthage.

The trouble is that when the ruler died I keep getting CTD's when the province revolts, hence the origional quesrion about heirs.

The long term "plan" is to replace with level II's when Marian reforms kick in, thank god I've now got a sharp/cara/vig pleb whose popularis still only 24 and a lot of campaigning to do!

Then following your advise keep a few plum ones so I get gallic cav etc.

Plan for now is to ship a whole load of young FM's a rebuild a few govts.