Diphtongs in classical greek

[Ayce]

No need to, I got the idea, I was just wondering about those because of the „weird” selection sounds.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Don't travel to a country where they still use a wide variety of vowels and diphtongs then...

[Maion Maroneios]

Listen, I 've heard some pretty damn idiotic things as how letters and diphthongs where pronounced in ancient times. One thing I can tell you is that neither modern greek pronounciation neither Erasmian must have been what it really was. Just because western-europeans ancient Greek ''experts'' cannot pronounce a single Greek word, doesn't mean they have to make up their own rules which suits them best. Like this guy I saw on a documentary about the Peloponnesian War who spoke about a naval battle that had occured at the Hellespond between Sparta and Athens, near a place called Aigos Potamoi. In modern Greek we pronounce it like: Egos Potami (Αιγός Ποταμοί). I laughed my brains out when he said something like: A-i-gos Po-u-tamo-i, pronouncing the diphthongs ai and oi seperately. It sounds strange, let me tell you...

[Tellos Athenaios]

Listen once, I am not the one who made anything up; as a matter of fact we didn't make something up like that.
Listen twice, we don't use Erasmian either (because that only applies to post-Koine Greek (at least post-14 AD)) we use what scholars have inferred from transcriptions into various languages.
Listen thrice, look up keravnos' signature and follow that link to the page about how we think ancient Greek was pronounced.
Listen one more time yet: if you can find it in these forums, be sure to follow that link abou once gave us, where they try to read the works of Aristophanes and others...

[Ayce]

Well, my native language is Romanian, a WYSIWYG language, so diphthongs do not transform into other vowels, like in Greek and French, but if I try to pronounce Greek words directly I don't find it ergonomic at all. I mean I can't see how a guy from that period could transmit information to another guy with any efficiency by talking like the guy that said a-i-gos po-ta-mo-i. In common speech you had to use some reading rules or spoken abbreviations or your tongue would tie itself into a knot.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Nice - totally discount what outsiders say about your history because you think they sound funny when they say it. It's an easy way to feel superior and to feel like you alone have the right to say anything ultimately about the history of the people in the country you are from.

[Vorian]

Nice - totally discount what outsiders say about your history because you think they sound funny when they say it. It's an easy way to feel superior and to feel like you alone have the right to say anything ultimately about the history of the people in the country you are from.

Ok, there are many sensitive and somewhat ignorant of my countrymen around no need to rub it to our faces every time someone says an opinion......


And Vincent_Valentine actually said that ancient Greek had different pronunciation than modern, what keravnos specifically explained many times.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well, my native language is Romanian, a WYSIWYG language, so diphthongs do not transform into other vowels, like in Greek and French, but if I try to pronounce Greek words directly I don't find it ergonomic at all. I mean I can't see how a guy from that period could transmit information to another guy with any efficiency by talking like the guy that said a-i-gos po-ta-mo-i. In common speech you had to use some reading rules or spoken abbreviations or your tongue would tie itself into a knot.

Well that is subjective to personal experience, or rather inexperience. For instance if you travel up to Germany or the Netherlands, people who can read the Greek alphabet will have no trouble at all pronouncing it (with a bit of an accent, most likely, but still it'd be a piece of cake). Reason: their nativ e language is vowel and diphthong heavy as well, and especially so with Dutch relatively little simplification has occurred. French or Latin for instance will take more effort to master.

[Ayce]

I was talking about Ancient Greek that is thought to NOT have the current rules (Ex: „αιοι” - now, pronounced just like „εϊ” - then, we don't know, but I suspect they'd try to „quicken” the pronunciation (like Dutch) if the literary language were like „αϊοϊ”)

[Maion Maroneios]

Listen once, I am not the one who made anything up; as a matter of fact we didn't make something up like that.
Listen twice, we don't use Erasmian either (because that only applies to post-Koine Greek (at least post-14 AD)) we use what scholars have inferred from transcriptions into various languages.
Listen thrice, look up keravnos' signature and follow that link to the page about how we think ancient Greek was pronounced.
Listen one more time yet: if you can find it in these forums, be sure to follow that link abou once gave us, where they try to read the works of Aristophanes and others...

Wow, calm down my friend! I didn't say anything about the EB team or how they did the ancient greek voicemod or anything! I just stated the fact that I have heared some crazy things (to me they are) about how my ancestors pronounced letters and diphthongs. I just say it is strange to me and not what I think should be. Oh yeah, and one last thing: The only way to really know how they spoke, it to have a record of someone speaking ancient greek on tape

[bovi]

I would be rather suspicious of said tape .

[Tellos Athenaios]

Wow, calm down my friend! I didn't say anything about the EB team or how they did the ancient greek voicemod or anything! I just stated the fact that I have heared some crazy things (to me they are) about how my ancestors pronounced letters and diphthongs. I just say it is strange to me and not what I think should be.

Don't worry, it was just the fact that you started with "Listen" which is rather -direct- so I thought I'd do the same. I wasn't being mad at you for it or something. Just 'continuing' the line of speech you set out, thought it was kinda funny.

Oh yeah, and one last thing: The only way to really know how they spoke, it to have a record of someone speaking ancient greek on tape

Of course. Well transcription from/into various well-documented languages will give a clue or two as well, but apart from that... In any case my main conern is to ensure we don't have any grammar bugs in it; if the pronounciation is off at times... I can hardly complain, since I wouldn't do a better job at acting and at the same time tackling the language.

[keravnos]

Here is Keravnos and his damned sig...

This has been talked about sooo many times, but one thing really needs to be asked, again...

Do you REALLY think that language hasn't changed in 2300 years since the time BC was around?

If ΑΙΓΟΣ ΠΟΤΑΜΟΙ really did sound like egos potami that it sounds like in modern greek why would ancient greeks bother with writing it like that? Or having 3 different dipthongs all sounding like "e"?

The obvious answer is that sometime in the long gone past those dipthongs sounded different...

[Tiberius Nero]

Listen, I 've heard some pretty damn idiotic things as how letters and diphthongs where pronounced in ancient times.

That doesn't sound like you are stating only your opinion; saying that "it sounds strange to you" and that it is idiotic is not exactly on the same level of judgement.

Anyway, I have spent much time on this forum and in real life debating things that are pretty obvious so I am not going to do so again (hopefully); I have said all I had in this thread, check it out if you wish:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ght=commentary