Faction migrations

[Quirinus]

Nope, I'm not talking about hordes in BI, but regular factions in vanilla RTW. I've seen a guide for Germania that advocates abandoning the home provinces, and then swoop down and settle in Italy.

I'm sure that's possible, viable even, with other factions. For example, is it a viable strategy to throw everything at Egypt and settle there as the Seleucids? Is it a good idea to move out of Sicily and Campania to Asia Minor as the Scipii?

What are your thoughts on faction migrations?

[The Wandering Scholar]

They are good for say poor economy faction like Sythia to say Greece

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

It depends on the faction and the strategic, monetary and current military importance of the place you are moving to. This has to be compared with your current location and situation, than your target region's situation.

For example, I often find, as the Julii, that settling in Egypt is a wise move due to the wealth and population boom of the area. Although this would be an intelligent tactic, abandoning Egypt to move to the poor and deprived lands of Scythia probably wouldn't be.

[Quirinus]

Ooh, that's a thought. How would do do that, and how many turns would that take, approximately? I actually tried settling Crete and Rhodes once as the Brutii. I was in deficit for many turns, and was utterly dependent on other factions (Macedon, Greeks, Pontus, Egypt), but the money just came rolling in once I had Rhodes and a few other coastal provinces. The Julii took over my lands in Italy.

If you move the Julii to Egypt, who takes your former lands in Italy? Does the Brutii/SPQR do that, or are they overrun by Gaul/Germania/Dacia?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I typically sell my old Italian lands to either the Brutii or the Scipii when I've finished with them. If they won't give me money for them I usually let them rebel, resulting in me getting a batch of senate missions ordering me to take them back.

The Brutii or the Scipii usually take them off the rebels hands eventually though, and sometimes they even go North a short distance, coming into contact with the Gauls. Although they never stray too far in that direction, it can be entertaining watching a differing version of R:TW's usually uniform expansion.

[Punicus]

I like the starting positions of most of the factions I play as, so I never really gave this much thought. But I find it pretty interesting now that I consider it. Omanes basically hit the nail on the head as far as reasons for doing this go, so there's no use in repeating what has been said, but I will definitely try this sometime when I need to.

[Spartan198]

I can't stand not having Sparta,Byzantium,and Rhodes under my spear.

[Punicus]

I can't stand not having Sparta,Byzantium,and Rhodes under my spear.

Indeed, generally that whole area is just a fantastic economic homeland. And it's quite centralized. Only one boat trip to Africa and Italy, if I remember correctly.

[Julius_Nepos]

Way back in the days of RTW 1.0 I used to use Macedon as a migratory faction, mainly to avoid dealing with the Romans before I was ready. I'd abandon Greece and if things went to plan I'd end up with Byzantium, Nicomedia, Sardis, Rhodes, Hallicarnassus, and Pergamum, a good base of operations. Sadly this option was removed in later versions of the game as it became far harder to trade provinces (even at a loss) without a large cash bribe as well.

My Alternative, in the late game, became to forcibly migrate other factions by bribing enemy cities outside of my zone of control and then handing them over to other weak and or distant factions like Britain or Dacia. Seeing Egypt overrun by massive and powerful Celtic armies from England was fun. Anyway just pointing out here one need not migrate personally to see its effects, it can be a passive game of population redistribution as well. Cheers!

[The Wandering Scholar]

It could be fun to say change everyones starting positions with the descr_start

[Quirinus]

Way back in the days of RTW 1.0 I used to use Macedon as a migratory faction, mainly to avoid dealing with the Romans before I was ready. I'd abandon Greece and if things went to plan I'd end up with Byzantium, Nicomedia, Sardis, Rhodes, Hallicarnassus, and Pergamum, a good base of operations. Sadly this option was removed in later versions of the game as it became far harder to trade provinces (even at a loss) without a large cash bribe as well.

My Alternative, in the late game, became to forcibly migrate other factions by bribing enemy cities outside of my zone of control and then handing them over to other weak and or distant factions like Britain or Dacia. Seeing Egypt overrun by massive and powerful Celtic armies from England was fun. Anyway just pointing out here one need not migrate personally to see its effects, it can be a passive game of population redistribution as well. Cheers!

I actually tried that, but I've found that a lot of the time, other factions will simply refuse your gift. I find this odd-- anyone ever encounter something like this?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I actually tried that, but I've found that a lot of the time, other factions will simply refuse your gift. I find this odd-- anyone ever encounter something like this?

Hundreds of times. When it comes to the diplomatic AI, it's intelligence is fairly primitive and, in many respects, could also be considered to be completely broken. Gifts are often refused, ceasefires are ended the same turn they are created, and, on occasions, perfectly reasonable and sometimes even generous offers are dismissed as worthless by the AI.

[Quirinus]

I see.

I've been thinking of trying a Greek game in Gaul/Spain. I know that I'd be leaving a rich area for a poor one, but I want to see how it works out. Any tips/pointers on how to do that?

Also, Julius_Nepos, I'd be interested in trying out that scenario you just mentioned-- giving the Egypt provinces to a barbarian faction. How did you do it in your campaign?

[The Wandering Scholar]

I suppose you could just use move_character to get them there, add_money to bribe them. Although how to actually get them to relocate somewhere else. I don't know. It will seem that you might have to destroy spain to locate their. once you are located just raise taxes and your home provinces should just revolt or maybe if you can give them to macedon that would be better. Is the diplomacy in Bi/M2 any better?

[Mikeus Caesar]

One migration that i'd recommend you don't try (or try, if you like a challenge), is Seleucids to Ireland. You need to go by boat, and it's bloody difficult. Then you have to quell the natives, and try to make it profitable while suffering huge losses due to your large army you brought with you.

[Quirinus]

Yah, and also the difficulty of defending your initial cities (to provide for upkeep) while you inch your way through the width and breadth of Europe. My migration took five years (ten turns) and I was travelling by boat.

I've considered trying to intentionally horde the Celts in BI and move all the way to Arabia, which is the furthest from Brittania you can get and still stay on the map. Haven't tried it though.

[The Wandering Scholar]

Make sure you raze your home settlements for extra income before you leave them

[Mikeus Caesar]

I also forgot to mention, it completely drains your bank balance due to the fact you have to make a near full-stack navy to make it to Ireland - otherwise, pirates and other factions will sink your navy, and your entire faction will plunge to the murky depths.

[wizbode]

I did it once, with the greeks.

The faction leader and his son, a unit of spartan hoplites (the one you start with) and a unit of peasants set sail on 2 boats, to Ireland.

As soon as we got there (luckily no pirates attacked us, but we did have some fights with the romans on the way) the Leader and his Spartans captured the city, exterminated it and destroyed every possible building. Then, I disbanded the peasants, which would be the foundation of the new greek empire.

The initial cities I left to rebel, and the generals and their armies got killed in the process.

My coffers where near empty, so I made a blitzkrieg and took all of Britain with the faction Heir, the spartans, and a bunch of mercenaries that I bought with my last gold. As soon as Britain and Ireland where Greek, the money started pouring in again.

Good times.

[wizbode]

Oh yes, now I remember that I tried the same thing with the Parthians. I abandoned the northern-most city, assembled my whole cav army along with the faction leader, his son and another general, and rushed to a coastal city which belonged to Egypt, that I can't recall the name. We captured the city, made 2 biremes and set sail.

Unfortunately for me, this time the egyptians weakened the navy, and an attack of pirates near spain put end to my adventure

[Quirinus]

I did it once, with the greeks.

The faction leader and his son, a unit of spartan hoplites (the one you start with) and a unit of peasants set sail on 2 boats, to Ireland.

As soon as we got there (luckily no pirates attacked us, but we did have some fights with the romans on the way) the Leader and his Spartans captured the city, exterminated it and destroyed every possible building. Then, I disbanded the peasants, which would be the foundation of the new greek empire.

The initial cities I left to rebel, and the generals and their armies got killed in the process.

My coffers where near empty, so I made a blitzkrieg and took all of Britain with the faction Heir, the spartans, and a bunch of mercenaries that I bought with my last gold. As soon as Britain and Ireland where Greek, the money started pouring in again.

Good times.

Oh my, I really should try that sometime. I imagine it'd be even more fun than my current Massiliote Greek campaign. The Isles of Cassiterides under Greek control......

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

As Quirinus has said, a Greek migration to Ireland does sound like a very interesting challange. I think I may try it eventually - civilising the Barbarian lands sounds like a very interesting campaign.

[Hannibalbarc]

Migrating is fun, especially once you start getting bored of always doing the same thing, I've migrated to Italy with Germania, and to Greece with Scythia and Dacia, migrating with barbarians has a special advantage in that most of the time you can train your elite units much sooner.

[Hound of Ulster]

I always move out of Northern Italy with the Gauls. The funniest thing that has ever happened to me was in my most recent RTR campaign with the Gauls, the Illyrians invaded northern Italy. All they ended up doing was putting themselves in the path of the Roman steamroller.

I abandon Southern Italy whenever I play the Greek Cities, mostly because it allows me to concentrate my forces in the Pelopannesse against Macedon.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

I'm sure that's possible, viable even, with other factions. For example, is it a viable strategy to throw everything at Egypt and settle there as the Seleucids?

What are your thoughts on faction migrations?

It sure is possible.
all you have to do is abando all your settlements.

Youll own them still for a while but eventually other factions and rebels will take them over. a good strategie to get rid of them is to raise the taxes as high as they can go and get all the money you can from them.

you then destroy another faction and take their territory.

have fun.

[Paradox]

I usually destroy the city's buildings and raise the tax rate to very high, either way, I'll either get the money or lose the city, everyone wins.

[Quirinus]

Some thoughts on my Massiliote Greek game that I abandoned-- raising taxes to very high and letting the cities go rebel isn't a particularly good idea if you have a long way to travel, as that will leave you high and dry with no income. That nearly did me in early in the campaign, when my troops had only just landed in Transalpine Gaul. Luckily I had been hoarding my cash before that, and even then I only just managed to stay in the black by aggressively expanding up north to Lugdunum and west to Narbo Martius and Osca.

Do the demolish-buildings-and-raise-taxes thing only if you're very sure of getting your target provinces within the next couple of turns or so.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

If migrating I always keep the settlements for as long as I can. Although I migrate everything useful from them, I always maintain one unit of peasants to hold out in a seige should one arise and keep the populace at bay.

Regardless, I don't develop these settlements, and simply leave them for enemies to find and take off my hands. Even then I hold out as long as I can in the case of a siege, wiping out all my buildings whenever I predict an assault is coming.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

As Quirinus has said, a Greek migration to Ireland does sound like a very interesting challange. I think I may try it eventually - civilising the Barbarian lands sounds like a very interesting campaign.

Ugh...Can you imagine the constant culture penalty? :ugh:

[Quirinus]

Far from it-- the culture penalty is the least of your worries. For example, only fifteen years into my Massiliote Greek game, my core cities (Massilia, Lugdunum, Narbo Martius) had zero culture penalty, mainly because when I captured them they were puny. Once you get past the first stage of poverty and lack of infrastructure, I imagine it'd be pretty easy, though-- the British Isles are a stronghold that's unlikely to get attacked.