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Thread: You will never be queen!

  1. #1

    Question You will never be queen!

    Hi guys,

    I just want to know, is a queen regnant possible in M2TW? I've tried to kill all of my princes (possible male heirs), leaving only my princesses, but I ended up defeated instead.

    I believe it's not allowed in the game to have a queen rule your kingdom. So is there any mod for it?

    History says there really were queens in the middle-age, right?
    What are you staring at!?
    Lower your eyes, I am the queen!
    You are not my equal, Sir!
    You will never be!!


    - Elizabeth, The Golden Age (2007)

  2. #2
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Quote Originally Posted by fixmanius
    Hi guys,

    I just want to know, is a queen regnant possible in M2TW? I've tried to kill all of my princes (possible male heirs), leaving only my princesses, but I ended up defeated instead.

    I believe it's not allowed in the game to have a queen rule your kingdom. So is there any mod for it?

    History says there really were queens in the middle-age, right?
    Yes... I believe this to be a flaw in the game. You should have princesses that can act as generals, (but cannot be diplomats once they become generals) and Queens should reign until there is a legitimate male heir to the throne (for historical accuracy only).

    Wedded princesses should cease to be generals, or they cannot have children. I can't imagine a pregnant woman leading an army. But otherwise, yes there should be no restrictions for women characters in the game.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Quote Originally Posted by askthepizzaguy
    Yes... I believe this to be a flaw in the game. You should have princesses that can act as generals, (but cannot be diplomats once they become generals) and Queens should reign until there is a legitimate male heir to the throne (for historical accuracy only).
    Yea, I never thought of it, princesses as generals.
    Btw, you said "queens should reign until there's a legitimate male heir", was that really like that?


    Quote Originally Posted by askthepizzaguy
    I can't imagine a pregnant woman leading an army. But otherwise, yes there should be no restrictions for women characters in the game.
    What are you staring at!?
    Lower your eyes, I am the queen!
    You are not my equal, Sir!
    You will never be!!


    - Elizabeth, The Golden Age (2007)

  4. #4
    Desperately Seeking Tamworth Member Ethelred Unread's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Historically in England there was only 1 Queen who ruled as a Monarch in the Medieval period, Matilda, although technically it was a civil war in England because Stephen of Blois contested the throne at the same time.

    I don't know about the other states in Europe at the time...
    "The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials"


  5. #5

    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Up until the end of XVIII century ruling queen's where a big exeption in all of Europe (not to mention the rest of the world). They ruled only in case there was no male heir, or if he was not old enough for the job. Some of them ruled after their sons where mature, trow the power of intrige and treachery, but basically everyone seemed to thing this is not something normal. In most of the cases when the only legitiment heir was female, the actual ruler was her husband. The queen's become possible later on, but then the monarhc has a little to no real power.

  6. #6
    Nomad horse archer Member Barbarian's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Theoretically, it would be possible to mod in some queens, at leat in Medieval 2: Total war kingdoms, as there are special character models already. Would only need to change the battle model, and the portrait, and give some nice traits


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    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Dude... if someone has the necessary skills, and they can mod it in a way that doesn't crash the game... I'd download it.

    I'd be Joan of Arc and whup some serious buttock.

    OH and you soooooo need to give them awesome names.
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  8. #8
    Master Guar Herder Member Guru's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    "Well shaped"
    - 1 command, +1 popularity +1 morale for all troops on the field
    "Her curves make it hard for her troops to concentrate on the orders..."

    "Constant nagging"
    -2 moral for all troops on the field, -1 popularity
    "Most soldiers joined to army just to get away from their nagging wives."

    "Likes to bathe"
    -10% movement points
    "She is so inclined to keep herself clean that it shortens her army's daily march a bit."

    "Varying moods"
    +2 dread, -1 morale for all troops on the field
    "Her moods are like a rollercoaster, making her dangerous for everyone."

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  9. #9

    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Iavorios
    Up until the end of XVIII century ruling queen's where a big exeption in all of Europe (not to mention the rest of the world). They ruled only in case there was no male heir, or if he was not old enough for the job. Some of them ruled after their sons where mature, trow the power of intrige and treachery, but basically everyone seemed to thing this is not something normal. In most of the cases when the only legitiment heir was female, the actual ruler was her husband. The queen's become possible later on, but then the monarhc has a little to no real power.
    Countries that observed the Salic Law did not have queens. Other countries, notably England, Scotland and the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, did have regnant queens - some of whom never married.

    There is no reason why countries not historically observing the Salic Law couldn't be ruled by a queen in M2:TW, if no male heirs were available and the right mod was in place.

    The interesting thing would be that, just as a princess can do the dirty on you in the current game and run off with an enemy general, so could your queen.

    Imagine it: you've accumulated 44 provinces, you're just about to seal Scotland's position as the mightiest power in Europe and then your 74 year old Queen Agnes I gets her head turned by a dashing young Italian nobleman less than half her age and you lose the game........
    As the man said, For every complex problem there's a simple solution and it's wrong.

  10. #10
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Guru
    "Well shaped"
    - 1 command, +1 popularity +1 morale for all troops on the field
    "Her curves make it hard for her troops to concentrate on the orders..."

    "Constant nagging"
    -2 moral for all troops on the field, -1 popularity
    "Most soldiers joined to army just to get away from their nagging wives."

    "Likes to bathe"
    -10% movement points
    "She is so inclined to keep herself clean that it shortens her army's daily march a bit."

    "Varying moods"
    +2 dread, -1 morale for all troops on the field
    "Her moods are like a rollercoaster, making her dangerous for everyone."



    In the interest of fairness, any woman with battlefield experience would not behave like a stereotypical effeminate woman.

    She could have traits that enhance her abilities too.

    "Comfortable in Battle"
    +2 morale, +1 command
    "This lady general has led men in battle before, successfully"

    "Inspires the Men"
    +1 morale
    "Her grace under pressure inspires the men to follow her orders, and they are willing to die under her command."

    "Battle scarred"
    -2 charm, +4 general's hit points
    "No longer a gentle flower, this warrior princess has survived numerous encounters with the sword. Her scars prove that she is not afraid of battle, nor death"

    "Heroine"
    +3 morale, +3 command
    "Her crushing victories under less than ideal circumstances have saved the day numerous times. Her men consider her to be a goddess sent from the heavens."

    "Promiscuous"
    +2 morale, +2 charm, -1 command
    "She's no shrinking violet. She prefers the company of her men, and the sentiment is very much mutual. They are willing to die to protect her."

    "Benevolent Governess"
    +3 chivalry, -20% trade income, 20% discount on construction and recruitment.
    "She is far too concerned about the plight of the peasants for the King's tastes, but the province is prospering under her leadership. Perhaps her temporary rule will inspire loyalty to the throne..."

    And ditto... general princesses can be persuaded by handsome gentlemen, (chivalry or dread rating should act as charm in this regard, for the men... women like a bad boy, after all, but nice guys dont always finish last either.)

    The Queen has the crown and would not run off and abandon her kingdom. I give her more credit than that.

    She would have to accumulate a LOT of negative authority to do that, plus have the "promiscuous" trait.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 02-07-2008 at 14:05.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    It would be a nice touch and add greatly to the family management/ role playing aspect of the game, but I would rather have the effort put into AI and combat mechanics rather than superficial things like this

  12. #12

    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Quote Originally Posted by askthepizzaguy
    The Queen has the crown and would not run off and abandon her kingdom. I give her more credit than that.

    She would have to accumulate a LOT of negative authority to do that, plus have the "promiscuous" trait.
    I love the various traits you've outlined but have to question whether a queen might risk her kingdom for a marriage.

    Mary, Queen of Scots and at least two Byzantine princesses were driven from their thrones by nobles appalled at their marriage choices. That being the case, marriage to a foreigner should at least result in widespread loss of loyalty amongst generals and governors -and widespread rebellion following that.

    In the case of Mary I of England, it would be worth considering the implication of her having had a son by Philip II of Spain. In that case, England might have (temporarily, at least) have been absorbed into the Hapsbury monarchy - and, since the Spanish would have been dominant in such a situation, that would have made English territory subject to Spain.

    For every Elizabeth I rejecting all available domestic and foreign suitors, history has an Empress Irene offering to marry Charlemagne and unite the Byzantine and Holy Roman Empires. The result would have been Frankish domination or Byzantine civil war. Or both.

    And the game should reflect that.
    As the man said, For every complex problem there's a simple solution and it's wrong.

  13. #13
    Desperately Seeking Tamworth Member Ethelred Unread's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    I liked the mechanic in MTW for rebellions and still bemoan that it isn't in MTW2 because this is exactly the situation where it would be good to apply.

    Civil/dynastic wars were so commonplace in this era and IMHO this would solve the following vet moans.

    1. Choosing heirs - the heir should default to the closest male heir anyway - if this gives a weak king (e.g edward II) then you'll have a civil war and you can pick the side to fight on.

    2. Keeping interest in the endgame as the distances involved would make more likely that a sizeable portion of your empire would try to break away.

    I guess these are wishful thinking though as these things are not moddable.
    "The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials"


  14. #14

    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Add ancillary

    Adoring Guard "+2 security, decrease chance to bear children!"
    Shinai Fodder

  15. #15
    Could be your God Member Abokasee's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    A more historical accurate one:

    Female leader: -2 popularity with the pope, +2 influence, +2 popularity
    "The Catholic church would rather not have women in a position of power, and a long living queen would be blasphemous, but of other leaders may see this a direct root to anothers throne"
    -This is gained if your queen is, well a queen

    Long Lived Queen: -6 popularity with the pope, +2 influence (not stacking with above), +5 popularity
    "The Papacy is frankly getting annoyed with this game of longitivity and would launch a crusade if it got her married, although a long living queen does show some sort of glory"
    -This is gained if your queen live till say, 35-50 ish

    One of many: -9 popularity with the pope, +2 influence, +8 popularity with the pope to a faction that marries her, +2 popularity
    "The pope him self is ripping out what little hair he has left"
    -Gained if the last 4 rulers have been queen

    Dosn't nag: +1 popularity, +1 Command, +1 morale for troops in battle
    "Makes a change for the troops to have a women in charge who isnt constantly nagging!"
    -Gained with pure luck

    Likes power: +2 command, -1 popularity
    "She would perfer to hold onto power"
    -Gained when you make a habit of sending hiers into battle on there own

    Ancillaries
    'Special' Friend: +1 Chances of having a child (May inherit the throne, may not), -2 influence
    "She has many friends, this one is her one of her best"
    -Gained randomly

    Other Friend: +1 Chances of having a child (May inherit may not) -4 influence
    "This is her other friend"
    -Gained randomly and requires 'Special' friend

    When the queen dies, the children may spawn and create a civil war! (Intelligent rebels or be part of a supporting neighbouring faction who would like that throne?)

    and one for that hier who takes the throne:

    Bastard Child: -2 popularity with the pope, -3 influence, -2 popularity
    "His parents were not married when he was born, this may cause status problems"
    -Gained when a hier born from a 'Friend' takes the throne,
    Now with transparent layers!

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  16. #16

    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Why would a Queen be more popular with the people than a King? Wouldn't a Queen be less popular because people would think that a woman would be unable to rule properly (unless she won several battles).

    Also all Princesses have the trait 'IAMPrincess', so adding this to a general may make them appear as a princess.
    Last edited by uanime5; 02-20-2008 at 14:52.
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  17. #17
    Knight of Fable... Member Mek Simmur al Ragaski's Avatar
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    Angry Re: You will never be queen!

    A woman might have not been as popular, but they certainly did some great things, such as Elizabeth I, Who created the middle religion between catholics and protestants, who stopped the invasion of the spanish armada, and Victoria, who was present when lots of stuff was made
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  18. #18
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    ... Um wouldn't this queen eventually get married to... a chick? I don't think you can unhardcode that... so your queens would be lesbians too.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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  19. #19
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
    ... Um wouldn't this queen eventually get married to... a chick? I don't think you can unhardcode that... so your queens would be lesbians too.
    Not that there's anything wrong with that, right antisocialmunky?



    It will be a bit odd when the queen immaculately concieves children with the queen's new bride. Perhaps if the queen has an ancillary character "Lusty McManservant" it might explain where the necessary chromosomes come from.
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  20. #20
    Ice stink there for a ham. Member Mystery Science Torture 3000 Champion, Mini Putt 3 Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion, Pencak Champion, Sperm Wars Champion, Monkey Diving Champion Yoyoma1910's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Uh, what about a "Marriage of Convenience" trait for that.

    "He has hes and she has shes."

    My kingdom for a .

  21. #21
    plenitudo potestatis habeo Member Duncan_Hardy's Avatar
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    Default Re: You will never be queen!

    Quote Originally Posted by diotavelli
    Countries that observed the Salic Law did not have queens. Other countries, notably England, Scotland and the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, did have regnant queens - some of whom never married.

    There is no reason why countries not historically observing the Salic Law couldn't be ruled by a queen in M2:TW, if no male heirs were available and the right mod was in place.

    The interesting thing would be that, just as a princess can do the dirty on you in the current game and run off with an enemy general, so could your queen.

    Imagine it: you've accumulated 44 provinces, you're just about to seal Scotland's position as the mightiest power in Europe and then your 74 year old Queen Agnes I gets her head turned by a dashing young Italian nobleman less than half her age and you lose the game........
    It's a bit more complicated than that. Salic law was a fabrication of 14th-century French bureaucrats seeking to legitimise the royal claims of the Valois dynasty. In reality succession was determined by certain customs, some of which were theoretically set in stone, but all of which were occasionally ignored for convenience.

    There is of course huge geographical diversity when it comes to the role of female members of royal families. Frontier societies tended to be more relaxed; thus, Queen Sibylle, daughter of Amalric, King of Jerusalem and brother of Baldwin IV, could become regent of the kingdom in the absence of a suitable male claimant (who soon arrived in the form of Guy de Lusginan).

    Coding such a complex and varied system would of course be impractical and would probably skew the results (as has already been pointed out, female monarchs were ultimately few and far-between) and as such it is sadly for the best that CA chose the broadly historical model of an all-male dynasty - even if, as the OP pointed out, the death of all male pretenders should not really herald the end of the game if female family-members remain.
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