Sard-Nuragic Units a "no show"?

[HamilcarBarca]

There was the occasional mention in the forums after the release of EB 0.80 that EB 1.0 would include Sard-Nuragic units, to represent the native Nuragic tribes of Sardinia, but I see that this did not happen.

It seems to me that there are no "native" units at all to recruit in Sardinia; the only units that can be recruited there are faction roster units.

I was wondering if one of the EB devs could explain the situation in Sardinia? The absence of "native" Sard-Nuragic units?

H.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Lack of time to model them already?

[Leão magno]

Great to know they will be modeled!!!!!! Perhaps with the Celtiberian soldier and with what else?!

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

That is for you to guess...

[Zarax]

It's not the easiest to gather info about nuragic units during the game timeframe, there are bronze statues and reliefs about the shardana but most of them are pre 8th century BCE, when the nuragic civilization was at its best.

It appears that the bulk of them was the "Sardi Pelliti", basically guys dressed in hides and lighly armed while the nobility adopted many carthaginian customs.
Tribes in the east were also influenced by the iberians, especially the balearics.





http://www.colonnedercole.it/isola/isola2_11.htm (mostly older than the game timeframe)

[HamilcarBarca]

Well I don't want to give anything away about rtr7 but... I would have thought a reconstruction based on the simpler, less elaborately armoured, Nuragic warriors depicted in the bronze figurines, mostly produced during the Nuragic Phase II and III, would be pretty safe, and consistent with Livy's "Sardi Pelliti" (Livy, 23.40).

These "Goatskins" were presumably the Balari and Illesi tribal groups that inhabited the so-called “Barbagia”, that is, the forested mountains of eastern Sardinia, and the Corsi who had been driven into the mountain districts of the Gallura, in the northern extremities of the island.

Tribes in the east were also influenced by the iberians, especially the balearics.

There may be some logic to that, but no evidence as far as I am aware. For instance, Sards seems to prefer the short bow, whereas the Balearics were obviously slingers, and while there are similarities between the Nuragic, the Torre and the Tayalot cultures, there are important differences too.

H.

[Zarax]

I never said they were all influenced by balearics, I mentioned the eastern tribes.
Also, I agree with you that nuragics preferred the short bow.
Usually they were armed with bow/spear or axe.
Swords were used but mostly by nobility, cavalry was not exactly available to them even though there are depiction of even horse archers

[HamilcarBarca]

... I agree with you that nuragics preferred the short bow.
Usually they were armed with bow/spear or axe. Swords were used but mostly by nobility, cavalry was not exactly available to them even though there are depiction of even horse archers

Well, if we rely on the bronze statuettes, and perhaps too the statues of monte prama (c. 700 BC), I think that the sword and bow is attested; nobility are depicted with elaborate armour, long-horned helmets and long swords, whereas "common" warriors have short, dictinctively wide two-edged swords and bows. Some are depicted with staves, daggers, and distinctive long, heavy clubs. I have not seen any evidence of the axe.

I do not believe that there is any persuasive evidence of cavalry or horse archers. There is the lone bronze statuette of an archer standing on a horse (not seated!) - the "arciere del Sulcis a cavallo" at the Museo Archeologico, Cagliari. But this is held to demonstrate acrobatics and competition, rather than cavalry warcraft.

I recommend the following sources;

Barbro Santillo Frizell (ed.), Arte Militare e Architettura Nuragica, Nuragic Architecture in its Military, Territorial and Socio-Economic Context, Proceedings of the First International Colloqium on Nuragic Architecture at the Swedish Institute in Rome, 7-9 December, 1989 (esp. Peter F Stary, Arms and Armour of the Nuragic Statues);

and

Angela Demontis, Il Popolo di Bronzo, Abiti, Armi e Attrezzature dei Bronzetti Sardi in 100 Schede Illustrate, Condaghes, Cagliari, 2005

[Zarax]

I'm actually going to get some first hand sources around the end of this year (my uncle being an archaeologist precisely in the nuragics fields) and so that should bring something more precise on.
I'm curious to see if excavations at Nora brought up anything really useful.

[HamilcarBarca]

I'm actually going to get some first hand sources around the end of this year (my uncle being an archaeologist precisely in the nuragics fields) and so that should bring something more precise on. I'm curious to see if excavations at Nora brought up anything really useful.

Really? I have a keen interest in Sardinian archaeology, Nuragic and Punic. What is his name? I'm always keen for another contact!

I visited the dig at Nora in mid 2006, and at that stage they were working on Punic era remains that had been found under the Roman-era forum, so I suspect he will have lots of interesting insights into the pre-Roman phase at Nora, but little in the area of pre-Roman arms and armour among either Punic or Nuragic populations.

H.

[Zarax]

His name is Antonio Zara, I think he's retired now but he worked in the team of Dr. Lilliu, one of the most respected authorities in the nuragic field...

[HamilcarBarca]

he worked in the team of Dr. Lilliu, one of the most respected authorities in the nuragic field...

he's not "... one of the most respected"... - Giovanni Lilliu is the man!!!! The doyen of Nuragic archaeology! Giovanni Lilliu basically invented the modern study of Nuragic archaeology (Miriam S Balmuth probably gets the credit for "inventing" modern Sardinian archaeology for us English speakers).

I virtually learnt Italian just so I could read 'La Civilta Nuragica' (1982) and 'Sardegna Nuragica' (2006). His work at Su Nuraxi di Barumini is awesome, and I have had the privilege of visiting that site.

H.

[Zarax]

My uncle worked mostly at the Nora excavation site, too bad now I live far away otherwise I could get some nice pics from him...

[Mores]

Hi folks. I was reading your interesting posts. Amilcare, I let you know that the Mountain Prama' statues were made around the 11th century b.C. Hope it helps a little.