fall of the Roman Empire

[Rick]

I think it's in public domain now. Check out

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/gibbon/decline/

or a recorded version:

http://librivox.org/the-decline-and-...edward-gibbon/


This has vols 1 - III only

http://www.cca.org/cm/rome/index.html

I got these sites from simply Google'ing "public domain - fall of the roman empire.

Rick

[The Wandering Scholar]

Thanks, yes it is in the public domain. Thanks

[puklo]

I've read somewhere that one of the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire (a process that took centuries) was this: Roman nobilities, during their parties (orgies or otherwise) would have their wine boiled in lead vessels. Lead contaminates the wine, thus making the drinkers grow more and more stupid (aside from the other physical effects of lead poisoning). And they also used lead plumbing. That, plus their dearth of moral values, was what catalyzed the Fall. Of course, plus other factors like Rome's over-dependence on grain imports, over-dependence on slaves, arena events, and so forth. The Empire rotted from the top going down. And don't forget the barbarian hordes who had the opinion that Rome was a nice prize--financially and egoistically. Bye-bye dears. See you again. Soon.

[Mores]

I've read somewhere that one of the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire (a process that took centuries) was this: Roman nobilities, during their parties (orgies or otherwise) would have their wine boiled in lead vessels. Lead contaminates the wine, thus making the drinkers grow more and more stupid (aside from the other physical effects of lead poisoning). And they also used lead plumbing. That, plus their dearth of moral values, was what catalyzed the Fall. Of course, plus other factors like Rome's over-dependence on grain imports, over-dependence on slaves, arena events, and so forth. The Empire rotted from the top going down. And don't forget the barbarian hordes who had the opinion that Rome was a nice prize--financially and egoistically. Bye-bye dears. See you again. Soon.

Lol. I bet you never studied history at the Univ.

[puklo]

Lol. I bet you never studied history at the Univ.

Mores: Allow me to reiterate--I've read that ONE of the reasons for the fall of Rome was because of the ruling personages' ingestion of lead--plumbum--a poison. I never said it was the ONLY reason for the degeneration. The fall of an empire is a long process, a process that has perhaps hundreds of contributing factors--allow me to point that out. And what I implied was (let me state this to you in simple terms) lead made people stupid and their lives shorter. And if you have stupid emperors, advisers, and senators, where do you think the Imperium would be headed for? You have brilliant generals, sure, but soldiers are expected to follow what (stupid) orders the Imperator et al would dish out. And because many emperors were pickle-brained, the most notable of the generals stage revolts and become emperors themselves (go ahead, look up in your history references, see how many generals helped themselves to the purple, starting from after Nero).
Next time, Mores, try to understand first all of what people are saying before making any half-cocked comment.
Study history in the university? I am LIVING in a university! I participate in these fora to relax after my hours in the classroom, to engage in some light talk, sort of take a vacation from the pressures of research and serious deliberations, a place where I could have an exchange of pleasant words with amiable people. And if you don't think lead poisoning is one cause (among the so many other contributory factors) of Rome's deterioration from the top, then you're entitled to your own views. After all, albeit many of us who contribute here have read up on a few or so references, this IS an exchange of opinions--opinions concerning issues, heed, not opinions about the participants.
University? Baby, the university is all around me right now!!
Good day.

[The Wandering Scholar]

Are you going to give away your location?

[The Wandering Scholar]

I've read somewhere that one of the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire (a process that took centuries) was this: Roman nobilities, during their parties (orgies or otherwise) would have their wine boiled in lead vessels. Lead contaminates the wine, thus making the drinkers grow more and more stupid (aside from the other physical effects of lead poisoning). And they also used lead plumbing. That, plus their dearth of moral values, was what catalyzed the Fall. Of course, plus other factors like Rome's over-dependence on grain imports, over-dependence on slaves, arena events, and so forth. The Empire rotted from the top going down. And don't forget the barbarian hordes who had the opinion that Rome was a nice prize--financially and egoistically. Bye-bye dears. See you again. Soon.

I agree with everything there except the lead thing. huh?

[Rick]

Actually, there is something to the lead thing, although you'd have to Google the subject to get all the medical ramifications on it.

I visited the Roman Baths, in Bath, England. The entire pool was lined in lead. Even up to the 20ths Century they were still using lead as a waterproof sealant.

Rick

[The Wandering Scholar]

I understand lead was used in many things but lead to be a cause of the fall of the roman empire?

[macsen rufus]

"Lead poisoning killed the Romans" is probably the world's oldest Urban Myth... no doubt lead is a health hazard, but lead plumbing was also used in plenty of other times and places without societal collapse. I'd put a lot more trust in imperial over-extension, decadence, barbarians/migrations and internal political instability

[wumpus]

I think it's in public domain now. Check out

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/gibbon/decline/

Rick

Ah, yes, Rick--Gibbon's voluminous account of the Fall. This should be the first destination for people who want to delve into the Fall. However, just one word of caution: there are some authorities who say that Gibbon's account should not be taken as THE total source--it should be compared with the accounts of other sources. Just like Herodotus--his Greek History should not be taken totally as we moderns recognize history, as he includes some hearsays, myths, and legends (I think, Thucydides the Father of Modern History should be taken more seriously, as he bases his writings on first-hand accounts. Or Xenophon too.) Likewise with the tales of Josephus regarding the Jewish Wars--some of his accounts are hearsays. But, at any rate, I still consider Gibbon's work as monumental, despite everything.

Yo, Upxl: great stuff you have given us here, man. I take my hat off to you.

Hawooh.