fall of the Roman Empire

[Parallel Pain]

I have no problem admitting that the military and economic power of the Roman Empire fell. But what about its immense culture? Undoubtedly it's still today the most important background of the whole Western Society. Just think about the fields of jurisprudence, engineering, art, literature, language, architecture, road network and city planning. All these elements didn't fall but adapted and were inherited by the following generations. I don't think the Baghdad Caliphate had similar influences on modern society.

By that reasoning the Han, Tang, Song, and Ming dynasties are still around. They aren't.

And actually I believe Italy should call itself the Roman Republic, considering that a great amount of the national wealth comes from foreign tourists visiting the artistic cities, especially Rome. Moreover, there must be a reason thousands of people from all over the world visit the Eternal City every year. I think they all are eager to enrich themselves culturally and spiritually, thanks to the emotions the ancient Roman monuments can still convey to them. In this way, they can complete both their culture and their souls.
Can you really call it decline? I think you can't.

Yes but they DON'T. And yes I can call it decline. In fact I don't just call it decline, I call it fall. And for the simple reason that from the Dark Ages until the Renaissance the culture of Europe was Gothic and not Classical.

And don't forget many goes to Italy to see the Renaissance artist, who worked in Greek Style (naked) and not Roman. Even the people going to Rome, a large percentage of which goes to see the Vatican.

[Arakano]

1. Christianity, made state religeon by Emporer Constantine, eliminated all ancient moral beliefs of Rome that made it great. The games were seen as too brutal, which in actuality were an ancient tradition that made sure the people were happy. Military expansion was seen as unnecesary, due to God and peace. Other religeons were looked down upon, causing much more unrest then previously; Whereas all Gods were seen to exist. The movement of the Capital to Constantine, though some see as intelligent, was acually hazardous. Rome was not only the capital of the Empire, but it was the Empire. When it was changed, the perspective of "Romans" must've changed.

IMO, Constantine "the Great" was actually Constantine ", killer of the greatest Empire in history all becuase of his own selfishness."

If Rome had stayed a Republic, who knows...it might even be here today.

"The beliefs that had made Rome great" - like that war was always justifiable, one way or the other? That slavery was a great thing?
The games made "the people" happy, true, but as such they were about as important for Rome's power as television is for the power of modern nations. I dare say that the US would not suddenly lose much of its power because TV was turned off.
Military expansion was seen as unnecessary under many earlier rulers as well, Hadrian for example. While there were Christian rulers who expanded quite ruthlessly.
I would like to see prove for more unrest due to persecution of other religions. I never heard of anything pointing to this being a major issue.
Actually, to say that the capital was moved to Constantinople is an oversimplification. The empire was divided into smaller, more manageable regions. There were several "capitals", actually.
Rome had long ceased to be the empire at the time the capital was moved. It was a degenerate city of spoilt parasites.

And why was the Roman Empire, in your opinion, the greatest in history? It can't be because of its extent, so why?

As for Rome staying a Republic - we DID see how well THAT worked in the centuries before Augustus. It was simply not possible.

Sorry that my first post here may appear so... well, hostile. Actually, I am a nice guy. No, really. ;)

[TruePraetorian]

No hostilitys taken!

You have some valid points. But slavery and war, which were a part of the romans daily lives, were also what kept the empire strong. Slaves benifited the economy in various ways, being a major export of newly conquered regions. War not only secured the borders, but it created Romes standing among nations. Rome never had trouble with foriegn powers until the decline of expansion, and when the trouble did happen Rome itself was sacked.

The decline in a mobilized military greatly affected Rome as a state, as it would any country. Try to take the military from the US, and then see who declares them a superpower. Also, the conversion of the military into a barbarian based military was hazardous. It ran down the economy, which provided Rome with less funds, which is not good for anyone.

As for unrest caused by new religeon, of course there is nohing to back it up! But you tell me, when the crusaders invaded the holy land, that there was not immediate unrest in Jeruesalem. With the changing of a state religeon dies the standards of the old culture, and we can all see the Republic was the flourishing-period of Rome.

Now, i am not agaisnt Christianity...i am one myself. But the fact of the matter is when you have a culture such as Rome which was founded on ancient traditions of killing, slavery, and the like, which made it great, and you introduce a new radical idea (religeon in this case) the culture is bound to fall apart. The ideas of Rome and the ideas of Christianity were nearly opposites, and when Rome switched everything about her changed.

Welcome to the Org.