Tyberius Patch 1.0 for MTW - VI - XL 3.0

[Bill Westwater]

This is an ineresting add-on to XL mod. One question i have though is this: which faction(s) are Kwarazmian swordsmen available to and what are the era and building requirements? Its just that in the custom battles they are available to the Cumans and the Volgar Bulgars, but in the campaign thay are not.

[The Lizard Pope]

I've just installed this, it looks excellent. Well done Tyberius!

[DaVega]

Yeah me too, i've downloaded it yesterday and I must say i'm really impressed! ;) Unfortunately i'm only able to play the battles, because of my new laptop. So when I try to play the campaign itself, it crashes to desktop when it's loading the campaign map But anyway, great job! I love the even larger growing amount of units which are now available!

Does anyone know if there is another patch/mod for Medieval XL which includes even more units? I tried to create them myself, but I find it rather hard, so I decided not to create my own..

[Raz]

I don't think there is another add-on for XL... unfortunately.
And I believe that after the new units in Tyberius' add-on there can't be anymore added. There is a maximum of 256 units and then you can have a few extras for ships and agents (and some others) but once you hit 256 you can't add anymore. =/

[DaVega]

Ok thanks Raz!

[Tyberius]

This is an ineresting add-on to XL mod. One question i have though is this: which faction(s) are Kwarazmian swordsmen available to and what are the era and building requirements? Its just that in the custom battles they are available to the Cumans and the Volgar Bulgars, but in the campaign thay are not.

In all three campaign, periods, the Khwarazmian swordsmen, as well as the Khwarazmian Cavalry, are available to the following factions: Egyptians, Golden Horde, Turkish, Cumans, and Volga Bulgars. but as a "double condition" they can be trained only on:Mesopotamia, Antioch, Arabia, Armenia, Edessa, Syria, Georgia, Jerusalem, and Tripoli.
The requirements for the Khwarazmian swordsmen are: Swordsmith, Armourer.

Almost all units in my add on have this "double conditioning" so maybe you've noticed that each "faction exclusive" unit are also "province exclusive" that is to add some realism to the game.

i.e. Korean spearmen/guardsmen/skirmishers, can be trained only by the Holden Horde faction, AND can be trained only on Muscovy/Volga-Bulgaria/Khazar/Georgia/Armenia/Mesopotamia (the bottom north-east Border provinces). to reflect the fact that they are not really trained there, rather they come from the far east.

i.e.2 Longbowmen can be trained by the english only. and only in the provinces that longbowmen historically were found: Wales, Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex, Normandy,and Brittany (there were longbowmen on other regions of europe such as on Aragon and Navarre, and French longbows also existed, but in small numbers, so They could have been other longbow unit, sadly I'm limited to 256 units, the number of the beast!)

I will gladly answer any questions you have.

[Bill Westwater]

Thanks for answering my question. One thing i am not sure of is the doubling up of units of similar type. For example, again with the Cumans, the Cuman horse archer is a good unit, better than the standard horse archer by far, but would you build them ahead of Steppe heavies? I doubt it. The same with steppe warriors, which are marginally cheaper (and worse) than Cuman warriors. Do these two types of unit differ significantly in geographical availability? With the Seljuks there seems to be even more choice between units of a similar type. For example Armenian HC, Ghulam Cav and now Seljuk Lancers are all available. I like the way you have geographically limited the new units that have been introduced, perhaps in a later version (assuming you will produce one) you could change the availability of some of existing troop types to avoid this 'doubling up'.

[cegorach]

They could have been other longbow unit, sadly I'm limited to 256 units, the number of the beast!)

I will gladly answer any questions you have.

Of course 256 combat units - dismounts, steeds, agents and ships can get past the 256th position.

If you have used all those places already try adding a 'mirror' to the longbows by setting another unit of longbows with different homeland,size and faction allowance.

I can explain how to do so if you want, but there is a thread about that somewhere in the modding zone of the forum and you might have read it already.

Again. It is possible to add a lot of more than 256 units per file.

[Tyberius]

Thanks for answering my question. One thing i am not sure of is the doubling up of units of similar type. For example, again with the Cumans, the Cuman horse archer is a good unit, better than the standard horse archer by far, but would you build them ahead of Steppe heavies? I doubt it. The same with steppe warriors, which are marginally cheaper (and worse) than Cuman warriors. Do these two types of unit differ significantly in geographical availability? With the Seljuks there seems to be even more choice between units of a similar type. For example Armenian HC, Ghulam Cav and now Seljuk Lancers are all available. I like the way you have geographically limited the new units that have been introduced, perhaps in a later version (assuming you will produce one) you could change the availability of some of existing troop types to avoid this 'doubling up'.

You mean that you could raise Seljuk lancers but not Ghulams or Armenians on the same province? or that having three types of a similar unit are redundant?
In the first case, Armenian Heavy Cav are well limited to Armenia, Rum and Lesser Armenia, but Ghulam Cav, can be trained on almost every muslim region, maybe I could limit the ghulams to the southern "arabic" regions , and leave the seljuk lancers to yhe northern ones, other than armenia, lesser armenia and rum, but maybe this would limit an egyptian expansion to the north, egtptians don't have another lance cavalry at disposal other than Khwarazmian cavalry.

for the cuman warriors/steppe Warriors duality well, Steppe warriors can be trained on all steppe regions by all three steppe factions aka cumans, volga-bulgars and the golden horde, and have less requirements (bowyer) than the cuman warriors (bowyer's workshop), that are trained on the southern steppe regions, plus moldavia,carpathia and wallachia.

Maybe I can give the Cuman Warriors better "swordsmen" stats, upgrade the requirements to (bowyer's workshop, Swordsmith) and raise the unit cost and manteinance as well as limit its homelands to lesser Khazar, levidia, crimea, moldavia and wallachia, But ALSO I must limit the other two cuman units (Cuman hv Cav and Cuman Horse Archers) to the same provinces.
Consequently I can leave all steppe units other than Alan Merc to be trained out of cuman territories.

You have to consider that Cuman Horse Archers have a completely different role than the Steppe Heavy Cavalry. Cuman horse Archers are considerably faster and are more skirmish/pursue oriented, while Steppe Hv. Cav. are melee cavalry with bows just as boyars.

In all cases if you (or anyone else) have an idea of how to distribute better all units you consider "redundant" I will take your advise gladly and make the changes pertinent to the 2.0 tyberius add on.

Cheers and thank you all for the feedback.

[Tyberius]

Of course 256 combat units - dismounts, steeds, agents and ships can get past the 256th position.

If you have used all those places already try adding a 'mirror' to the longbows by setting another unit of longbows with different homeland,size and faction allowance.

I can explain how to do so if you want, but there is a thread about that somewhere in the modding zone of the forum and you might have read it already.

Again. It is possible to add a lot of more than 256 units per file.

I Know, I Know...
but, if I want to introduce another longbow unit, I have to:

A.- move the original longbows unit to the first row ot the unit prod.txt file
and add other longbow unit i.e. "Aragonese Longbowmen" to the row 257 with availability on aragon and navarre by aragonese faction. (this could result a mess if just one space on the .txt file has been misplaced)

B.- copy all units before the longbows AND the longbows to row 257 and forth ,block production of the "undesired" units to NO_FACTION (if you want not to have two identic choices of highland clansmen on scotland) then change name to "aragonese longbowmen", province and faction to aragon and navarre.

In both cases, the new Aragonese Longbowmen will appear to be available on aragon and navarre by the aragonese faction, but once built, the "aragonese longbowmen" name will change to "longbowmen" and be a copy of the english ones with same stats.
Am I right?

[Tristrem]

Tyberius this looks great. My one gripe i always had with xl was the lack of new units compared to bkb supermod. I liked xl because the ability to have GA campaigns, something thats impossible with bkb's mod. However i was always drawn to bkb's mod because of the units, and the fact that i thought xl was more of just a better version of vanilla with a few units sprinkled in.

Now i will have one obvious choice, and i will play xl with this mod for months to come now. Thanks for your hard work.

[oz_wwjd]

Could you make the buildings a bit easier to techup,? Right now it feels too easy, I think that the higher-level units should require more of an effort.

[cegorach]

In both cases, the new Aragonese Longbowmen will appear to be available on aragon and navarre by the aragonese faction, but once built, the "aragonese longbowmen" name will change to "longbowmen" and be a copy of the english ones with same stats.
Am I right?

Yes

[Raz]

In both cases, the new Aragonese Longbowmen will appear to be available on aragon and navarre by the aragonese faction, but once built, the "aragonese longbowmen" name will change to "longbowmen" and be a copy of the english ones with same stats.
Am I right?

Yes

But that isn't exactly useful, it doesn't really add much to the game for all that extra effort... They have the exact same stats and even the same name, but can be built by the Aragonese is all. IMO it's kinda... . . useless...

[cegorach]

But that isn't exactly useful, it doesn't really add much to the game for all that extra effort... They have the exact same stats and even the same name, but can be built by the Aragonese is all. IMO it's kinda... . . useless...

Not really. Of course it is better to have them as a 'twin' unit - with a different number of soldiers, cost, homeland etc. - they still will be able to merge with their 'brothers' after all.

Still it has some advantages - different faction allegiance, different number of soldiers, different buildings you need to have
+ the infopicture and the description in the recruitment window - so infact everything before the unit is ready to fight (and that still can work well for CB and MP purpose where there are no problems too) can be set in a different way.


I still need to check some additional options which can give even more uses, but for now that is all. I think it is quite enough already.

[Bill Westwater]

Tyberius, On the idea of redundant units, (where you have two or more units of roughly the same profile buildable in one province) i think your idea with the Seljuk lancers, Ghulam Cavalry and Armenian Cavalry is the best idea. With Cuman Warriors(CW) and Steppe Warriors(SW), because CW are basically the same as Golden Horde Warriors(GHW), changing their stats or build characteristcs would probably mean changing the GHW. Raising their upkeep to 30 or 40 is probably justified. Instead, it might be an idea to weaken the SW making them a light fast archer with little or no armour, costing around 200 but same upkeep.
With Cuman Horse Archers and Steppe Heavy Cavalry of course you are right about having differing functions and different build requirements. However, build requirements even for Steppe Heavies are fairly low. What you could do, of course, is make Steppe Heavies only buildable from high. This would make the Cumans at least less of a steamroller faction, and more of a lighter faster-moving force, at least in the early period. If you did this it would also make sense to make the Cumans bodyguard in early Avar Heavy Cavalry, but of course call them early Cuman heavy Cavalry or something, and confine their use to bodyguards. If i am not mistaken Avar Heavy Cavalry, though tough, are a bit weaker than CHC. I think this would give the faction more balance. Maybe this is too big a change, i'm not sure. Keep up the good work, this is an excellent mod/submod

[Tyberius]

With Cuman Horse Archers and Steppe Heavy Cavalry of course you are right about having differing functions and different build requirements. However, build requirements even for Steppe Heavies are fairly low. What you could do, of course, is make Steppe Heavies only buildable from high. This would make the Cumans at least less of a steamroller faction, and more of a lighter faster-moving force, at least in the early period. If you did this it would also make sense to make the Cumans bodyguard in early Avar Heavy Cavalry, but of course call them early Cuman heavy Cavalry or something, and confine their use to bodyguards. If i am not mistaken Avar Heavy Cavalry, though tough, are a bit weaker than CHC. I think this would give the faction more balance. Maybe this is too big a change, i'm not sure. Keep up the good work, this is an excellent mod/submod

I have a better Idea: there's one spot left on my add on's unit prod .txt files:
See, I have made available to XL campaigns the VI mounted nobles (and the dismounted nobles) so, I can just replace the dismounted nobles wit a new unit and make mounted nobles to dismount into feudal sergeants or feudal men-at-arms or some other unit. So, what's the point: Cuman Royal Cavalryas bodyguard unit in early. Stats weaker than Boyars using the smailcav (steppe) texture and ehorse (scale barded ) armed with bows and swords. that would make the cumans show a skirmishing behavior though avar nobles and khazar royals will still be choices of heavy cavalry for the Cumans. then CHC will appear on high, and could be the new bodyguard unit or even maybe keep the royals! as for the steppe heavies I'm not sure to make them appear on high...maybe up the building requirements or limit more their homelands.

Any comments?

[Bill Westwater]

You mean have Cuman Royal Cav with bows and stuff as well as Avar nobles, as well as Cuman Heavies in high. Now that is a great idea, is there something similar in BKB mod? As for steppe heavies, that is tricky, if you up the building requirements it is probable that the AI will not build them at all, because the Cumans are usually short of cash.

[Bill Westwater]

The solution of having the Avar heavies as the Cuman heavy unit in early would also mean that nearby factions wouldn't be overrun by double valor Cuman heavy cav. I think for the high period perhaps it would be a good idea to keep CHC as the bodyguard unit(as well as the main Heavy cav.
As you said, the bodyguard unit will be something a bit weaker than Boyars, but still strong, you mean something about the same strength as Steppe heavy cavalry (sorry, just joking!) I suppose you could make them a bit different by making their bows more effective against armour, or or give them an anti-cav combat bonus. I think one or both of these would make them fight infantry at a distance.

[Tyberius]

Images of the Cuman Royal Cavalry, to be included as the cuman's bodyguard unit on the Early period. Cuman Heavy Cavalry will appear on High, and still will be the bodyguard unit on High and Late periods.

And Yes: Is just like the one on Bkb's mod.









Slower than Boyars, little weaker charge, higher armour, better bows, same other stats

[Raz]

Hmm, those look like a neat addition, how's those fluttering flags coming along on those lances, BTW?

[Tyberius]

Hmm, those look like a neat addition, how's those fluttering flags coming along on those lances, BTW?

I'm Working on it.. :)

[Tyberius]

Here's a first attempt:

The fluttering Flags

Unzip files and copy and paste the folder into your MTW-VI-XL-TybPatch folder. Click "yes to all"

the unit favoured with the first fluttering lance pennons are the Lancers.

Make a custom battle in Late Involving Spanish, Aragonese or Portuguese factions, and include Lancers.

[Tyberius]

Someone tried yet?

(I mean the flags)

Yes: three posts in a row, I'm despaired

[Raz]

I would honestly try it, but I can't find my flashdrive to put it on my other PC!

[maso]

sadly I'm limited to 256 units, the number of the beast!)

There are some obsolete units in the unit file in late era that could be reused. For example highland clansmen are only be built in early and high. There others like bodyguards, viking units. Although it would mean fiddling with the campaign files because Scotland start with a unit of highland clansmen in late era.

Enjoying the patch.

[Gimli]

XL has been my favorite mod since I started playing! I am very much looking forward to installing this and trying it out! thanks for all the work!

[Raz]

I managed to get around to testing the fluttering flags, Tyberius. Two things:
1) I haven't used the lancers in the campaigns beforehand, but playtesting the lancers made me realize how freaking massive the lances themselves are. Did you do this or what? Why are they so long? Is it historically accurate or what? Well, it's not like I'm a lance expert on these things.

2) When the lancers are charging (and/or marching quickly) the flags seem to be fluttering above the lance. Unless the horse was moving at an extreme speed, I don't think the flags would have enough lift from underneath it for it to be lifted up and above the lance - that is, shouldn't the flags be fluttering underneath the lance when the lancers are charging?

[oz_wwjd]

Tyberius just a quick question:I'm playing as the Teutonic Order on the Tiberius Mod for XL and I can't seem to get the gunsmith to appear in any of my provinces. Is the gunsmith unavalible to the Order,or has the build requirements been changed to get in,because I have a cannon foundry in several of my provinces,but it just won't appear,also had the same things happen with the Venetians and the Hosptiallers,reported in the forums,when I posted on a possible fix option.

[seireikhaan]

Hi Tyberius, I've finally gotten around to testing your patch more thoroughly, and I must first say, Great Job! I like nearly all of the changes you've made, with but one exception. I'd prefer to have kept the Dane's colors what they were, because now, I'm having great degrees of difficulty telling them apart from the Spanish on the campaign map, especially when the two are building navies and it looks to me like someone's got a heck of an uber-navy to contend with. That's my only real complaint, otherwise, its very good!