Abortion

[Fragony]

A child after 22 weeks, and don't click if you don't want to be as disgusted as I currently am. Really, why are we allowing this? There are so many people that would do everything to have a child but they have to use the extremily cynical trade that is the adoption (and organ) industry and all the victims it makes. I am not religious, come from the dutch biblebelt but it never clicked with me. But when something is right it is right and this is so very very wrong.

EDIT: We've been here before and it has been very clearly ruled that pictures of late term abortions are not suitable for this site. Picture removed. BG

That is not a foethes it's a baby.

[Geoffrey S]

Might want to warn people a bit more before they click. Can't say I was prepared for that, though I agree it is distressing.

As for abortion, for some time I've been of the opinion that it should be made completely illegal in all cases except for medical necessity. I'm not religious, but I also don't see it as a right of man to decide over whether someone should live or never get the chance. Currently it's too easy an alternative for caution or living with consequences.

A necessity for that to work is, as you mention, that the current shambles which is the adoption system is rebuilt from the ground up. At the very least, the Dutch government doesn't support it as a realistic opportunity as a friend found out first-hand, and I wouldn't be particularly surprised if it isn't a similar situation elsewhere.

[Fragony]

EDIT: We've been here before and it has been very clearly ruled that pictures of late term abortions are not suitable for this site. Picture removed. BG

Not with me, sorry.

[Banquo's Ghost]

That's OK. By the way, it would be helpful if you could clear your inbox so that private messages can get to you.

[Xiahou]

What's the big deal anyhow? It's nothing more than an excised tumor- just an unwanted growth in the woman's body that a doctor removed for her.

[TevashSzat]

Just did a google search for it and didn't find it very disgusting/wrong at all.

To me, alot of the dissection stuff is worse, especially if you're going to med school and have to dissect cadavers

[Banquo's Ghost]

Let me make this very clear - posted photographs of aborted foetuses are not permitted, nor links to sites that host such pictures. This is an ongoing debate, and these pictures are available to the interested on many sites for the effort of a google search.

This is a PG rated site. Please feel free to continue the debate, but any breaches of the above advice will draw sanction.

[KrooK]

Its probably first time when I completely agree with Fragony.
He is absolutely right. Edition of his post by BG is just ugly.
People who are for abortion can say that its ok, nothing bad happens.
You BG don't allow Fragony on showing how "ok" is it.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Its probably first time when I completely agree with Fragony.
He is absolutely right. Edition of his post by BG is just ugly.
People who are for abortion can say that its ok, nothing bad happens.
You BG don't allow Fragony on showing how "ok" is it.

BG just removed it for being a little bit "too much" for younger viewers of this forum. Anyone who thinks they can take it can type in McGruff's way of viewing the picture - Google.com.

[ICantSpellDawg]

"right-wing extremists" are "crazy and sick" for posting those pictures. What about the people who took pictures of the Holocaust victims? Were they sick? Oh, I forgot that the difference was that those victims were human...

Wait, weren't there a number of people who disagreed that they were fully human? I'm sure that they called those photographers sick, too.

The real difference was that those people were forced to bury the bodies for what they allowed to happen.

[HoreTore]

Bah. If the fetus/baby/clump of cells/whateva is going to get the sack anyway, I really don't see any good reasons why the time it happens should matter.

Except medical reasons for the womans health though. Abortions become bigger operations the longer you wait, so obviously it's best to encourage people to do it as quickly as possible.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

"right-wing extremists" are "crazy and sick" for posting those pictures. What about the people who took pictures of the Holocaust victims? Were they sick? Oh, I forgot that the difference was that those victims were human...

Wait, weren't there a number of people who disagreed that they were fully human? I'm sure that they called those photographers sick, too.

The real difference was that those people were forced to bury the bodies for what they allowed to happen.

I didn't say that anyone was "crazy or sick" for taking that picture. In a way, I'm glad they did - it would raise awareness.

[Rodion Romanovich]

"right-wing extremists" are "crazy and sick" for posting those pictures. What about the people who took pictures of the Holocaust victims? Were they sick? Oh, I forgot that the difference was that those victims were human...

Wait, weren't there a number of people who disagreed that they were fully human? I'm sure that they called those photographers sick, too.

The real difference was that those people were forced to bury the bodies for what they allowed to happen.

Medically speaking, at an early stage the pre-fetus isn't really much more human than a bacteria, since it just like a bacteria has only one cell. It takes about 4 months until you can see the difference between a pig/rat and a human fetus. Yet, you think it's ok to kill pigs for eating and rats because they disgust you, but not a fetus whom you can't distinguish from one of those. As for Holocaust victims, to call people that are obviously human non-human is a completely different matter, and I fail to see what the Holocaust has to do with rape victims wanting to have an abortion of a piece of tissue without feelings. The fetus before 4 months hardly has any feelings, and not much more than simple reflexes at most - like a fish or insect which you wouldn't hesitate to kill. The whole argument about that it can't be aborted because it's too close to human doesn't really apply unless you're a militant vegetarian, which I personally am not - nothing is as great as a tasty, well-fried of BBQed steak

[ICantSpellDawg]

Medically speaking, at an early stage the pre-fetus isn't really much more human than a bacteria, since it just like a bacteria has only one cell. It takes about 4 months until you can see the difference between a pig/rat and a human fetus. Yet, you think it's ok to kill pigs for eating and rats because they disgust you, but not a fetus whom you can't distinguish from one of those. As for Holocaust victims, to call people that are obviously human non-human is a completely different matter, and I fail to see what the Holocaust has to do with rape victims wanting to have an abortion of a piece of tissue without feelings. The fetus before 4 months hardly has any feelings, and not much more than simple reflexes at most - like a fish or insect which you wouldn't hesitate to kill. The whole argument about that it can't be aborted because it's too close to human doesn't really apply unless you're a militant vegetarian, which I personally am not - nothing is as great as a tasty, well-fried of BBQed steak

Much more human? This is medical speak; that there are grades and levels of humanity?

Actually, looks aren't the qualifier of what a human is. Genetically it is a human - if it is able to progress, it will eventually look like us. Babies don't look like you or I, but we call them human because it is so glaringly obvious that they are. In fact, they look and act more like monkeys with dwarfism. Does that mean that they are not human?

"Hardly any feelings" - that's a good one.

[Viking]

"right-wing extremists" are "crazy and sick" for posting those pictures. What about the people who took pictures of the Holocaust victims? Were they sick? Oh, I forgot that the difference was that those victims were human...

Wait, weren't there a number of people who disagreed that they were fully human? I'm sure that they called those photographers sick, too.

The real difference was that those people were forced to bury the bodies for what they allowed to happen.

I merely said who likely made and published those photographs. While there is nothing with taking photographs to aid ones case, forcing these sort of pictures upon the public is perverted.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I didn't see that pic in the OP, but from the way people are talking I'm glad I didn't, I definetely won't be searching for it in Google.

I suppose at 22 weeks the baby must look pretty human, which is why it seems so horrific. But untimately, as far as I'm concerned, any abortion is murder.

[CountArach]

I didn't see that pic in the OP, but from the way people are talking I'm glad I didn't, I definetely won't be searching for it in Google.

I suppose at 22 weeks the baby must look pretty human, which is why it seems so horrific. But untimately, as far as I'm concerned, any abortion is murder.

And allowing the mother to die when a simple abortion could have saved her life isn't?

[ICantSpellDawg]

And allowing the mother to die when a simple abortion could have saved her life isn't?

Who is arguing for that?

I have never met someone who was "pro-life" who seeks laws to stop mothers from defending themselves from death. I believe in self defense.

[CountArach]

Caledonian claimed "any abortion is murder". It sounds to me like he isn't standing up for that at all.

[Rhyfelwyr]

In the horrible situation in which the mother's life was threatened directly by the pregnancy, then I would say there should be no laws against an abortion under those circumstances.

I think though you have to look at those cases individually. I'm no doctor so I don't know when and how exactly the mothers life could be threatened. Ultimately if her life is at risk she should have a choice.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

A child after 22 weeks, and don't click if you don't want to be as disgusted as I currently am. Really, why are we allowing this? There are so many people that would do everything to have a child but they have to use the extremily cynical trade that is the adoption (and organ) industry and all the victims it makes. I am not religious, come from the dutch biblebelt but it never clicked with me. But when something is right it is right and this is so very very wrong.

EDIT: We've been here before and it has been very clearly ruled that pictures of late term abortions are not suitable for this site. Picture removed. BG

That is not a foethes it's a baby.

Argeed. I mean, if you don't want a kid, Don't Have Sex or if you do, use condoms/birth control. If you don't want the kid, put it up for adoption. Is that that hard to do??